Society of Robots - Robot Forum
General Misc => Misc => Topic started by: Webbot on January 19, 2009, 08:12:45 PM
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Thought I might do a tutorial on creating your own single-sided PCBs - using Eagle, etchant etc - so no complex SMD Ovens, or UV boxes.
Am hesitant as I'm sure there are various VIDEOs out there.
Perhaps a $50 robot board.
Any takers?
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I don't think its necessary , not much demand for it. Might as well work on a different tutorial using the same amount of effort.
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isn't there already a PCB tutorial done
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isn't there already a PCB tutorial done
Well there is this one http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/103 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/103) which is somewhat in-complete.
Any others in the forum?
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Making a PCB has many many steps.
There are good tutorials out there already for every single step.
What I haven't yet seen is something that just connects it all together to make sense.
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I actually think it's a good idea to have this tutorial on SoR, true many tutorials exist in different places on the net. Problem with that is finding all the various *good* parts of said tutorials and piecing them together.
Why should someone have to trail through countless pages of info to pick out the good bits when the possibilty exists to have a good tutorial on SoR. Even if it's repeating whats already been done before it'll make life a lot simpler for all who visit SoR! ;D
This applies to more than making pcbs in my opinion
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yes, it would be good to have a tutorial on PCB making that people can understand on SoR to save the hassle of looking round other websites and trying to understand them.
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What I haven't yet seen is something that just connects it all together to make sense.
Yeah, I think there needs to be one where it walks through arranging and setting up the board file in Eagle.
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Ok, so there is some stuff I think I could cover (bearing in mind any restrictions of the equipment I have available).
It would be aimed at home production, one-off, kind of board runs - limited cost. If people want to do large board runs then use a professional company! Equally it would be really aimed at through-hole rather than SMD.
Say:
1. Starting with an Eagle Schematic (not showing you how to produce one as there are loads of tutorials out there and would vary depending on the circuit you were building). How to run the schematic checks.
2. Eagle Board - create a single layer design from the schematic. Routing (manual vs auto), checking designs
3. Printing out the PCB design, reflecting/inverting the design, a preflight check to make sure components will fit etc. How to add a 'silk screen' top layer of text to the board.
4. I will use Press'n'Peel to create the PCB and can link in other external videos. If others want to contribute a UV fabrication narrative then great.
5. Etching, drilling
6. Last minute changes to the board with 'wire'
The only 'common' circuit I can think of is the $50 board. Not that I would be competing with the Roboduino/Axon etc but rather producing a PCB alternative to the $50 matrix board. So no USB port etc etc. Just the plain vanilla $50 board.
Does this cover the 'cradle to grave' concerns from Admin etc?
I don't want to waste my time, let alone yours, producing something that is of no value. So if you can think of other stuff to add then let me know.
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Webbot, maybe you can check out this site: http://www.freerouting.net/
See if it can be used with Eagle. I'm relatively new to using eagle so I haven't a clue
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Equally it would be really aimed at through-hole rather than SMD.
I don't want to make your task any harder than it's going to be but perhaps skimming over SMD or adding a link to what is in your opinion a good reference/tutorial on SMD. In my opinion SMD is better because some through-hole components have/are being phased out and it saves the hassle of drilling.
1. Starting with an Eagle Schematic (not showing you how to produce one as there are loads of tutorials out there and would vary depending on the circuit you were building). How to run the schematic checks.
Again adding a link or links to tutorials that in your opinion are good.
I think the $50 board is the perfect example as it's quite simple.
4. I will use Press'n'Peel to create the PCB and can link in other external videos. If others want to contribute a UV fabrication narrative then great.
I believe you're in the UK too, Giving specifics on the paper you use would be great because I'm still experimenting with mine and all the tutorials I've read have been by Americans, getting hold of papers they suggest (up here in the sticks :D ) either costs a fortune in postage or is impossible
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1. Starting with an Eagle Schematic (not showing you how to produce one as there are loads of tutorials out there and would vary depending on the circuit you were building). How to run the schematic checks.
The $50 board is fairly simple, maybe you could also do the Eagle schematic? But with a twist: I'd like to see comments on how to adapt the board to other Atmega MCU's. This would be fairly interesting because it could show what is interesting in the datasheet related to robotics. I've done this board with an Atmega324P and it works, but I've made mistakes: I've only set up the equivalent pins (equivalent to the Atmega168 that's used in the $50, name-for-name) but the problem's that I missed one of the PWM pins for Timer1 (the 16 bit timer). I had to green-wire fix it.
4. I will use Press'n'Peel to create the PCB and can link in other external videos. If others want to contribute a UV fabrication narrative then great.
I believe you're in the UK too, Giving specifics on the paper you use would be great because I'm still experimenting with mine and all the tutorials I've read have been by Americans, getting hold of papers they suggest (up here in the sticks :D ) either costs a fortune in postage or is impossible
A list of "product codes" from major shops would be really really nice! I'm from Romania but I get lots of stuff from Farnell UK and I failed to find PnP paper in the list! I'm sure they've got some but I didn't find it.
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if its all condensed then yeah, do it. I'm looking forward to this tutorial
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ladyada just posted a good blog about etchants, check it out:
http://www.ladyada.net/rant/2009/01/the-chemistry-of-home-etched-pcbs/
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1. Starting with an Eagle Schematic (not showing you how to produce one as there are loads of tutorials out there and would vary depending on the circuit you were building). How to run the schematic checks.
The $50 board is fairly simple, maybe you could also do the Eagle schematic? But with a twist: I'd like to see comments on how to adapt the board to other Atmega MCU's. This would be fairly interesting because it could show what is interesting in the datasheet related to robotics. I've done this board with an Atmega324P and it works, but I've made mistakes: I've only set up the equivalent pins (equivalent to the Atmega168 that's used in the $50, name-for-name) but the problem's that I missed one of the PWM pins for Timer1 (the 16 bit timer). I had to green-wire fix it.
I think this more of a 'design' issue and so is out of the scope of a tutorial on how to make PCBs. Although 'green-wire' would obviously be covered as a topic.
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Have to agree with want2learn above. SMD isn't any more complicated while designing / etching the board, but it does cause some concerns with soldering before you get used to it, at least it did for me. :)
I know that searching around and finding how to make a PCB took quite a while before I could even list a bill of materials. I didn't know the difference between toner transfer, press and peel, or photoresist. Each has its own set of steps that requires a unique method. It took quite some time to realize what terms applied to what methods.
I would appreciate a good tutorial on Eagle. I currently use KiCAD on Linux and don't mind it to much, but it would be nice to be compatible with the rest of this forum. :)
I look forward to reading your tutorial!
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Webbot, I thought you meant more towards professional pcb. Like sending gerber files to a pcb house kind of thing. Etching tutorials can already be found on the web. Etching also creates all these bad chemicals that people just pour down the sink (a kitten dies every time you etch a board :'(). I'd rather just pay $30 and wait 2 weeks than make my own . . .
That being said, you should have a step 0 too:
0) read datasheets of the components and look at other peoples schematics to understand
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a kitten dies every time you etch a board :'(
I'm not sure if you are serious or not.
Is there some way to properly dispose chemicals without killing the environment? ( I'm talking about a method that is easy enough for regular guys to do , not medical HAZMAT stuff :P )
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Is there some way to properly dispose chemicals without killing the environment? ( I'm talking about a method that is easy enough for regular guys to do , not medical HAZMAT stuff
Well I used to work in a chemical lab . . . we'd just bottle chemicals up in plastic containers, slap on hazmat stickers and documentation, and once a week trained professionals would take it away to mystery land for further processing.
So either find a place that does hazmat chemical disposal near you (google), or google around to find a chemical to mix that neutralizes your hazmat. And of course, do it in a well ventilated area with full hazmat safety googles, gloves, and coat.
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Webbot, I thought you meant more towards professional pcb. Like sending gerber files to a pcb house kind of thing. Etching tutorials can already be found on the web.
Well I guess that kills off my tutorial.
I had envisaged doing a DIY one-off kinda tutorial (and it may well link to other stuff out there) but all in one SoR place. ie if I want to make the $50 robot then spending $30 on a professional pcb kills the budget - may as well buy Roboduino or similar.
But what if I want a one off amplifier, microphone, low power motor driver board etc. Thats something I keep doing - one off boards. OK its not rocket science.
Dogs rule!!
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lol Webbot you just made me go through a guilt trip!
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Humility is good!
Best to not spend time on 'un-necessary' stuff - when there's always 'too much to do - and too little time' .....
focus, focus, focus