Any palm os programming experinece?

[corrado33]

So many of you know that I'm building a palm pilot robot.  I was hoping to use the software CMU used when the did it but it's been gone for YEARS now.  I didn't realize that when i started.  And apparently it wouldn't work with my palm anyway cause mine is a bunch newer. 

So am I over my head?  I'm going to have to learn how to make programs for the palm, then how to make those programs use the serial interface... then program the micro controller to interpret those... 

Let's just say building the robot is the easy part for me...

Does ANYBODY have ANY experience in programming with palm os devices, that could maybe help me out...?

[galannthegreat]

HotPaw Basic is a basic editor and execution system for the Palm, they use it to control the PPRK robot (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pprk/). It's a great program that also has some sample code, check out the info here: http://www.hotpaw.com/rhn/hotpaw/.

There is a lot of info, but it's not a real trivial system to learn how to use to program a 'bot. Follow the manuals, examples, and most of all try it all out, you can get something up and running pretty easily.

To control peripherals (as I've just found out through some more reading) they do have a board that allows you to control servos and take sensor inputs, but it's pricey (http://www.pontech.com/details/4). You can very easily make one with an MCU using the UART.

I'll be doing some work on making a robot move aswell (though my classroom has a PPRK robot for me to test my code out), and if you need any help I'm happy to oblige.

[corrado33]

Hey thanks.  I was going to ask you what software they used on your classes PPRK, cause the one they used in the original PPRK is long gone (aka not in development anymore).  I that's cool that it's written in basic, as I've known basic for years.  The original PPRK programs were written in C (or C++ I can't remember).  Which I also know, but I like basic better... because... it's... basic?   

I also think that the original PPRK programs were actual applications you ran on your palm, which in itself is cool, but for now I just want to get some proof of concept things down.

And I am not using the pontech board.  I'm building my own.   

[galannthegreat]

You can very easily make a user interface for the Palm robot using HotPaw Basic, but to run it you need to select it everytime from the list (not really an issue, obviously) and the version you download is a 30 day trial version (should not be a problem if you beam it back and forth between 2 Palms or an IR equipped cell phone... or re-download it).

If you don't mind me asking, how are you going about making your own interface board?

[corrado33]

Well, the one sold pontech isn't really special is it?  There's no one saying that I can't build one just like it, and the parts are readily available.  The only thing I'll have to figure out is how to program the micro controller to accept commands from the palm.  Which shouldn't be that hard because the palm Hotsync cables have Tx and Rx pins.  I really haven't done that much research into the subject, but I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.  Here's the pinout of the palm universal hotsync cable for my Tungsten T2.

http://pinouts.ru/PDA/palm_m125_pinout.shtml

Plus (I'm guessing here) I figured the micro controller would be programmed to accept the Palm commands kind of like a sensor, but again I haven't looked in to it extensively.  Or I was debating using the palm as (mostly) a storage vessel/trig calculator.  If I was mapping I room I'd use it to store (and make a map out of) the sensor readings my robot takes in.  And whenever I had to do many trig calculations I'd just send them to the palm as it has a much faster processor than most micro controllers.  I like that approach because the micro controller does most of the processing, and simply leaves the hard processing to the palm.  Again, I'm just speculating here.  When i do actually start to program and research some more, I'll let you know.  

And I had a question.  Since you have one of the PPRKs at your disposal, do you think (I don't know if this is allowed or not), you could get the actual basic program used to control the bot in your classroom?  If I had an example it would be much easier to make my own.  Basically I just want to see the functions it uses to communicate with the micro controller and use the serial port of the palm.  


EDIT:  HotPaw Basic is AWESOME!!  I just found out it has built in serial/bluetooth/IR port support!  That'll make programming pretty easy then. 

[galannthegreat]

They actually did not send my instructor any code with the robot (mind you that he got this back in '02), but I'm sure that you can find some code examples that show some stuff to you. This site shows some examples of code that may help you: http://www.bpesolutions.com/gadgets.ws/gproject4.html. Here is another site that may help you: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pprk/software.html .

Since the Palm communicates via serial (Rx/Tx) you can simply communicate with a MCU and UART, but you'll need a 3.3V RS232 chip, as the Palm's lines are 3.3V.

[corrado33]

Could you please explain what you mean by a 3.3V chip?  I understand the RS232, but why specifically 3.3V?  I can see why 3.3V is important for a hotsync cradle (it lets the computer know that you want to sync when there is a positive 3.3v on a certain pin) but what does 3.3V have to do with the Tx and Rx pins? 

[galannthegreat]

The Palm's CPU is 3.3V as is communication with it. Something along the lines of this chip would work for what I mean: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=MAX3233ECPP%2BG36-ND

Here is what I mean when I say 3.3V communication: http://www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/luiz/item6.htm

[corrado33]

Why does the communication of the chip depend on it's "operating voltage"?  So are you saying I can't in any way make a 3V microcontroller communicate with a 5V microcontroller?  I thought communication was done with bits and numbers and variables.  Meaning I could send a number to my microcontroller to make it do something depending on what the number was.  Why is that dependent on voltage?  Couldn't I just use a 3V to 5V voltage converter to use a 5V micro controller.  Or is it a lot easier to just use a 3V microcontroller?  (I'm asking because I already bought a pretty specific 24V to 5V switching voltage regulator, and designed my PCB to accommodate it)  And if I really DO need a 3V microcontroller, would this one work...

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=ATMEGA64L-8MU-ND

[galannthegreat]

Actually... I may have had a brain fart (more than likely), check out how the Pontech servo controller works (SV203), check and see the communication levels for yourself, I'll check to see what is on the board myself tommorow (if possible). But I do know that the Palm is 3.3V, and I want to make sure that the chip on the Pontech one is known before any problems might happen.

What you have already will not be a problem.

[corrado33]

On the pontech website it says that both the SV203 and SV203B can accept inputs from 0-5V meaning (I think) that it's a 5V chip.  And the power supply is (suggested) to be 7V.  You obviously know more about this than me, so hopefully you can confirm these thing.

Thanks!