Society of Robots - Robot Forum

General Misc => Robot Videos => Topic started by: Admin on March 01, 2009, 11:33:24 PM

Title: remote controlled rats
Post by: Admin on March 01, 2009, 11:33:24 PM
The first video explains what is going on . . . and the second much less exciting one is what I filmed in Thailand.

[youtube]G-jTkqHSWlg[/youtube]

[youtube]34M2v9_c9UA[/youtube]
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on March 02, 2009, 01:31:25 AM
thats awesome yet kinda creepy. although its amazing how far technology has come to this day.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: airman00 on March 02, 2009, 07:50:30 AM
they make it seem easy
I noticed that in the 1st video there aren't too many electronic components there - in fact it looks like its not even a SMD board.

The electrical impulses from the microcontroller connect to what? To the whiskers?
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Jdog on March 02, 2009, 12:29:46 PM
they make it seem easy
I noticed that in the 1st video there aren't too many electronic components there - in fact it looks like its not even a SMD board.

The electrical impulses from the microcontroller connect to what? To the whiskers?
It connects to the part of the brain that normally recieves the signals from the whiskers.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on March 02, 2009, 12:55:41 PM
they make it seem easy
I noticed that in the 1st video there aren't too many electronic components there - in fact it looks like its not even a SMD board.

The electrical impulses from the microcontroller connect to what? To the whiskers?
pretty much the wires go into the head and are connected to specific nerves that make the rat want to go that way. when they press a button the rat chooses to go that way? although i think this is sorta cruel atleast they're not testing it on kittens yet and they give the rat pleasure if it does the right thing! :D
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: dannytemmerman on March 03, 2009, 10:58:31 AM
I find it cruel for the rats.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on March 03, 2009, 12:54:02 PM
I find it cruel for the rats.
initially i did think that. but think about it if they were testing it on puppies? and the fact that they reward it is why i dont mind it.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: HDL_CinC_Dragon on March 03, 2009, 03:09:10 PM
I kinda do feel bad for the rat but he doesnt seem to be in any kind of pain or discomfort. Plus, imagine having a button that controlled the pleasure center of your brain. Get into work in the morning and duct tape that ****ing button down!
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Razor Concepts on March 03, 2009, 04:18:23 PM
Anyone want to race RC rats?
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: chitniss on March 05, 2009, 04:39:38 PM
This is cool. My professor told us once about this experiment, but its way cooler to see than just hear about it in a lecture...

Cheers
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Admin on March 10, 2009, 01:59:15 AM
At the MOBOT competition at CMU (the robot line following competition), cyborg animals are explicitly allowed in the rules . . .
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Jdog on March 10, 2009, 06:25:23 PM
At the MOBOT competition at CMU (the robot line following competition), cyborg animals are explicitly allowed in the rules . . .

Is it even legal to do this to an animal in the states?
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Admin on March 10, 2009, 07:53:47 PM
Yes, but the rules are significantly more strict than in Thailand.

I was told that many researchers prefer to do this stuff in other countries to bypass how strict the rules are in the US.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: offy on March 10, 2009, 07:56:58 PM
I still think it is wrong to do this on animals, but they were raised to be tested on, so I would rather it to go technology instead of some stupid new chemical someone wants to make to clean a house or makeup.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Admin on April 02, 2009, 01:08:23 AM
More info on the rat here in Thailand

http://www.ait.ac.th/schools/set/thailand-outlook-channel-astv-2-features-aits-brain-machine-interface-robo-animal-control-project (http://www.ait.ac.th/schools/set/thailand-outlook-channel-astv-2-features-aits-brain-machine-interface-robo-animal-control-project)

More video at the bottom.

(http://www.ait.ac.th/schools/set/mouse03.jpg)
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 02, 2009, 01:28:44 AM
this thing should be banned...even though they cant complain but still they are living beings..we shouldn't mingle with their brains....
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: madchimp on April 02, 2009, 04:58:28 AM
I find it cruel for the rats.
initially i did think that. but think about it if they were testing it on puppies? and the fact that they reward it is why i dont mind it.
Honestly what difference does it make if it's puppies or rats? They are both living animals and rats are very intelligent critters. I don't really like it but it's probably the only way we will ever fully understand our own brains.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 02, 2009, 05:07:49 AM
you have a point. but at least it is kind of better than testing it out on humans?
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 02, 2009, 08:57:24 AM
there is no reason behind testing the neural architecture of living animals..its cruelll
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: HDL_CinC_Dragon on April 02, 2009, 01:44:03 PM
there is no reason behind testing the neural architecture of living animals..its cruelll
In my own opinion thats a very foolish thing to think. The understanding of ANY biological brain is extremely important for so many different reasons. Potentially curing so many diseases/ailments would be one of those reasons.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 02, 2009, 01:55:39 PM
on what dragon said, did you mean like the saying "kill one save a thousand" lol i know its from wanted but it seems applicable to this situation!
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 03, 2009, 07:03:57 AM
dragon...put urslef in its place and then think...stop thinking abt others when u know that when its our turn to be in that place most of us will back out... stuy the achitecture of dead animals not living ones...
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: airman00 on April 03, 2009, 02:54:32 PM
stuy the achitecture of dead animals not living ones...
it doesn't quite work that way, you need the brain to be "on"

And anyways, these rats are lab mice, they are destined and bred for experimentation - better here then testing out certain hair products or whatever.
And unless you don't take any vaccines whatsoever( which I highly doubt), then you shouldn't criticize what these scientists are doing. Vaccines needed to be tested out on animals too you know...
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: chelmi on April 03, 2009, 03:10:58 PM
And unless you don't take any vaccines whatsoever( which I highly doubt), then you shouldn't criticize what these scientists are doing. Vaccines needed to be tested out on animals too you know...

And most of our medicines I'd guess. Not to mention surgery...
I agree this is a very sensitive subject, and the ethic of such experiments has to be questioned sometimes. No offense, But saying that "there is no reason behind testing the neural architecture of living animals" is being ignorant. I don't think there is a way to study the brain when it's not working. It's not like you can use a multimeter to check the connections :p And I don't think the animal is feeling pain in this experiment otherwise it would distort the result of the experiment.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 03, 2009, 03:35:50 PM
i agree...lets just leave somethings to evolution itself...comeon man killing animals for food wasnt enough...now we are breeding to experiment on them...wats the use.. jst to study neurons working...keep urself in that animal's place and then think..would you like it...

your parents gave birth to u..and instead of loving you they would have started experimenting on u..jst bcoz they are ur life give givers...would you have liked it ?? i still say doing experimentation on living animals who cannot say anything abt their approval in taking part in such experiments is highly cruel.. .

i would have preferred a human being who would have agreed to have been experimented upon rather than anyone who cannot have a say in the matter..
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 03, 2009, 04:11:21 PM
i would have preferred a human being who would have agreed to have been experimented upon rather than anyone who cannot have a say in the matter..
sometimes we do that, when some people are dying of a illness they let the people experiment on them and their organs. i know i would if it would benefit science. but i would probably rather donate my organs.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: noobinator on April 05, 2009, 12:46:14 AM
this is cruel! i can understand why they want to do this but they are poor little rats? i mean they are so cute! i want to find the guy who did this and solder an arduino to his head and see how he feels afterwards!
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 12:56:29 AM
bravo...thats the answer.. .
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: noobinator on April 05, 2009, 01:04:27 AM
bravo...thats the answer.. .
is that sarcasm or not? i cant really tell with the dots? but looking at your other posts im going to say its not.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
no sarcasm dear..i cmpletely agree with u..
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: madchimp on April 05, 2009, 01:24:40 AM
I don't like seeing animals injured, abused, experimented on or killed in fact it bothers me a great deal. I used to be one of those completely opposed to animal testing. However having loved ones with disorders that affect the brain and experimenting on living animals is probably the only way to really understand the human brain I now see it as a necessity. Seeing loved ones suffer tends to change peoples views on these sort of topics.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 05, 2009, 01:38:36 AM
this does all go towards something useful. but think of the people who test out whether certain chemicals are poisonous towards humans on rats, those rats much have the worst deaths because they are put into a cage with a chemical that will most likely give them a horrible death. me, im against using any kind of poison (except spider) most of the time id like to capture the animal in a cage and let it go a few kms away from my place.
and noobinator i loled about the arduino thing.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 02:19:13 AM
wat noobinator said was right ...soldering an arduino on the head and testing rofl...will give sum idea to the testers how it feels... these animals are innocent..test these things on villians...murderers and criminals ...that way we ll get the tests done and these ppl will serve a good purpose..
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: Admin on April 05, 2009, 02:24:28 AM
I know it may sound cruel, but its impossible for you to live without something being killed. For example, your food comes from something that once lived. As such its probably no less evil than to derive life saving medicine in the same manner.

And besides, it is perfectly legal in most countries to kill animals for pure fun (deer, rabbit, fish, etc.). That would be something more noble to protest against :P
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 02:47:36 AM
i protest against that too. ...i dont eat  canned food  :P
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 05, 2009, 02:59:32 AM
i agree with admin about the shooting one, superchiku, would you rather this or the same animal get shot and sit there paralyzed until the hunter comes and kicks its head in and throws it on the back of his ute? i have to admit that is a worst case example but not all hunters are good shots? i only ever shoot at targets for this reason. see our point? there are worse things that could be happening to these animals. and this way it is benefiting man. would you rather a few rats die in testing or a loved one from that disease they were curing on those animals!
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 03:05:00 AM
why play with sum1's life...do it with sum1 who is willing to do it..did u ask for the rat's consent bfore implanting a chip on its head...did u ever feel like what the rat would be feeling...just because it cannot say anything to us as it is powerless that doesnt mean it is not feeling anything...

Even it is said never to touch a tree at night coz the tree feels it...even its a living being...
thsts why i say its cruel....if the rat somehow tells us "YES I AGREE TO THIS TESTING" then i wouldnt say anything but as long as it doesnt then i would say it is CRUEL>.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 05, 2009, 03:17:51 AM
so you would rather family members die of a disease instead of rats dieing of testing?
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 03:27:01 AM
see i have never experienced such things so i cant tell..i agree with reality i would choose rats to be tested..but i will feel completely guilty abt it...i accept reality..and i will try to find alternatives..
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 05, 2009, 03:36:34 AM
see, if you had lost a family member to a such disease you would understand my point. but i am still very opposed to people testing out poisons, reactions to products and just plain torture on animals.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: superchiku on April 05, 2009, 07:23:44 AM
ya i completely understand..
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: HDL_CinC_Dragon on April 05, 2009, 04:03:35 PM
(http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/fail-owned-meat-origin-fail.jpg?w=500&h=266)
I figured this image was pretty much perfect for this thread ATM.

There will always be sacrifices that need to be made for progress. Im not saying Its totally awesome how the poor little creature is subject to this experiment. I do feel bad for the little guy. He doesnt appear to be even discomforted though which makes me feel this is a totally acceptable experiment.
Im completely opposed to testing stuff out on animals that have no actual benefit to anything such as testing out makeup products and other crap like that.
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 05, 2009, 04:08:38 PM
Im completely opposed to testing stuff out on animals that have no actual benefit to anything such as testing out makeup products and other crap like that.
agreed, and ed i have about 650ish of those failblog pics on my ipod, they make me lol!
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: TrickyNekro on April 18, 2009, 11:25:08 AM
Before saying anything about rats and so many other things...
imagine how many people between us are paralyzed due to accidents...
think that reversing such engines could lead us to help people,
that even rely on mechanical breathing....
It's not that I hate animals or so...
But after all it's a balance... You always need to sacrifice something...
in such a case, either your mind and feelings or the lives of some people next to you...
History has shown that little remorse we have about testing animals for our own good...
So... let the development be... don't nag...
Title: Re: remote controlled rats
Post by: SmAsH on April 18, 2009, 03:41:53 PM
couldn't have said it better tricky, thank you for that post :)