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Author Topic: AC Earth  (Read 1335 times)

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Offline jonagikTopic starter

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AC Earth
« on: October 29, 2011, 10:00:17 PM »
Hi,

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, so let's see :)

I don't understand how the concept of earth works in AC power systems. Apparently one can be shocked if an unearthed metal case of a device shorts with an active wire in the device and a person touches the case (assuming there are no safety devices such as RCDs, etc in play). The implication here is that current can pass through the person into the physical earth and back to the power system.

How is this possible? I would have thought that the physical earth was non-conductive.

The following is taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ground#AC_power_wiring_installations:

"In Single Wire Earth Return (SWER) AC electrical distribution systems, costs are saved by using just a single high voltage conductor for the power grid, while routing the AC return current through the earth. This system is mostly used in rural areas where large earth currents will not otherwise cause hazards."

This just sounds absurd to me!

Thanks in advance for your help :)

Offline Soeren

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Re: AC Earth
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 07:26:17 AM »
Hi,

Apparently one can be shocked if an unearthed metal case of a device shorts with an active wire in the device and a person touches the case (assuming there are no safety devices such as RCDs, etc in play). The implication here is that current can pass through the person into the physical earth and back to the power system.
If you're wearing shoes of "rubber" or standing on something properly isolated and isn't touching anything else except for the hot case, you won't get shocked!
It's all a question of potential difference and if your body doesn't see any potential difference, no shock is felt (your entire body will be 120VAC (or whatever touches the case) - like birds resting on HT air wires of a much larger magnitude without feeling a thing.


How is this possible? I would have thought that the physical earth was non-conductive.
Physical earth, in the meaning dirt isn't conductive in itself, but with even the slightest bit of moisture, all the minerals in the earth (and in the moisture) will be fairly conductive.

With a high enough tension, you don't need the material to be conductive, as currents can "leak", as is the case when HT wires breaks and hang down touching eg. the pavement of a road.
Rescue workers are tought to take very small steps in such an area, as there will be a potential of nnV/m and a regular step will mean a large potential difference between right and left foot (and isolated shoes/boots won't save you in that instance).
You can stay in a single spot, but cover a larger distance (in the direction towards/away from the fallen cable) will result in a large potential difference.


"In Single Wire Earth Return (SWER) AC electrical distribution systems, costs are saved by using just a single high voltage conductor for the power grid, while routing the AC return current through the earth. This system is mostly used in rural areas where large earth currents will not otherwise cause hazards."

This just sounds absurd to me!
You drive a copper rod (or even a galvanized steel tube) a couple of meters into the rod (and usually water it right after to get the currents start flowing).
Earth cannot compare to copper in terms of specific resistivity, but considering the square of the conductor, the total resistivity is quite low.

You can use the earth as the sole medium for communication, if both "transmitter" and "receiver" has its output and ground connected to rods driven into the ground a good distance apart and it will result in a potential difference a certain distance away (related to how far apart one set of electrodes can be placed). It was used as far back as in WW1.
It's cheap, a homemade audio amplifier of say 5W and a sensitive (mic) preamplifier should give you a possible range of at least some hundred meters (much depending on soil resistivity and electrical noise in the area).
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline jonagikTopic starter

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Re: AC Earth
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 04:37:32 PM »
Firstly, let me preface this with that I'm a first year engineering student going into electronic engineering so I have some understanding of electricity, etc but am yet to have a thorough understanding of power systems, etc.

In summary, is this correct regarding SWER? The earth is conductive due to moisture and the resistance is high. Therefore, with the use of a very high voltage, energy lost in the earth would be low enough for it to be viable as a mechanism of energy transfer in certain situations?

Regarding electrocution in a domestic electrical wiring situation, I understand the mechanisms with which one would get electrocuted (current flowing from high to low voltage, currents, conductivity, etc, etc). My question is a) why is the power system connected to the physical earth in the first place (if it wasn't, presumably electrocution by becoming in contact with the active wire and the earth without being in contact with the neutral wouldn't occur), b) presumably the person needs to be in electrical contact with the earth (therefore touching carpet, for example, wouldn't suffice?), and c) in my country we have 230V 50Hz AC mains power. The human body is in the area of 10,000 Ohms of resistance and the earth is presumably many times that (100K or 200K or something?). That would lead to a peak current of somewhere in the low mA. As I understand it this a) isn't sufficient to cause any cardiac problems, and b) wouldn't be picked up by a residual current device (which operate for current leakage in excess of 30mA).

Presumably there is some error in my thinking?

Thanks for your help.

Offline jonagikTopic starter

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Re: AC Earth
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 09:28:53 PM »
****bump****

 


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