Society of Robots - Robot Forum

Mechanics and Construction => Mechanics and Construction => Topic started by: garriwilson on January 24, 2008, 08:14:42 PM

Title: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 24, 2008, 08:14:42 PM
Hey everyone. I have this strong feeling of desire to make a flying robot (autonomous). If I do there are a lot of challenges I have to face:

1. I don't know any programming.
2. I don't know much about electronics
3. 50$ robot is the only robot I've built.
4. I don't know what board to use.
5. I don't know how to make the platform
6. I don't have power tools
and many more

Am I challenging myself too much here?

I liked this member tutorial but I think it's not finished: http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/46

Do  you guys think with your help I could be able to do this?
This is what I want this robot to do:

1. If it flies up to my waist I'll be more than happy.
2. Follow objects

I don't even know where to start so I'll be needing a lot of help. If you guys think I have nowhere close the experience needed for this, PLEASE feel free to tell me so I don't make a mistake.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 08:20:08 PM
hmm with the help of S.O.R maaaybe but you would need quite a bit of money and a lot of help. the best way that i think you can do this is to use tilt sensors and have four blades like in that tutorial. but as i said with what you described you had you are VERY limited to what you can do in terms of making robots. what is your price range?

~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 08:27:16 PM
well depends how time you are willing to spend on it  and how much money ( it will get costly)


for your inspiration
My robot , chives, was the first real robot( not R/C ) that I ever built . I spent over 100 hours at least researching . I seriously knew nothing about robotics before Chives.


Also, set up small goals for yourself :
Example : get money, make it fly , make a self balancing see saw ( using helicopter blades and motors and gyros) , then add that to the robot

Your biggest problem would be learning how each part works and how to interface it . Plan it out and CAD it first. I can personally help you with this , email me for help , since I also want a autnomous flying bot but do not have the time to play around with it.   ;)

airman00[at]gmail.com
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
"off topic" lol but airman in your side thing where it says email you have mail to airman000[at]gmail.com?? whats up with that? "on topic" and also yes airman is right you do have to spend a lot of hours researching on how each part works. i would suggest that you learn a bit about how flying robots work and research how this robot would work and what you would need. most anonamous robots that fly get into the $100 upward range.


~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 08:42:15 PM
"off topic" lol but airman in your side thing where it says email you have mail to airman000[at]gmail.com?? whats up with that? "on topic" and also yes airman is right you do have to spend a lot of hours researching on how each part works. i would suggest that you learn a bit about how flying robots work and research how this robot would work and what you would need. most anonamous robots that fly get into the $100 upward range.


~smash

i use [at] instead of @ to avoid spam bots

expect to spend over 250 bucks on this one , but its worth it  ;)
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 08:43:59 PM
no i mean one is airman000 and the other is airman00 which is correct?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: ed1380 on January 24, 2008, 08:45:12 PM
both are airman00
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 08:46:30 PM
no i mean one is airman000 and the other is airman00 which is correct?

lol both are correct

airman00 , airman000 and airman0000 are all owned by me  :D

i have each airman whatever forward to airman00 at gmail.com, so that way airman00 gets barely any spam , since its filtered twice , once when airman000 recieves it and once when airman00 recieves it  , lol , just a trick I made up
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 08:47:46 PM
XD lol gives me ideas...  smart tho
~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 08:59:52 PM
XD lol gives me ideas...  smart tho
~smash

thx, but back on topic

i saw this toy robot helicopter that avoids obstacles  http://www.robotsrule.com/html/flytech-bladestar.php (http://www.robotsrule.com/html/flytech-bladestar.php) , perhaps a hack is in order

and also check this http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200311/weimer/bxflyer.html (http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200311/weimer/bxflyer.html)
Garriwilson , you can email me about this project also, i want to help out but on condition that you make a tutorial of this heli as you go along
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 09:03:19 PM
wowee lol also thats if he decides to do it. we have just put a lot of pressure on him.


~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 24, 2008, 09:41:10 PM
I could make a blog for it like yours airman  ;D . Right now I have school, so not too much time for this. During the summer I will really work on it.

Quote
My robot , chives, was the first real robot( not R/C ) that I ever built . I spent over 100 hours at least researching . I seriously knew nothing about robotics before Chives.
How did you learn programming and circuit board designing?

Airman, smash thanks for your support. I appreciate it  ;D .

Thanks, I'll try to research.


Off-topic: Anyone have a cure for quitting video games? I mean inside myself I don't want to and I know it's a waste of my time, but it's like a part of my system now. I hate myself because of that.

Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 09:44:57 PM
How did you learn programming and circuit board designing?



Off-topic: Anyone have a cure for quitting video games? I mean inside myself I don't want to and I know it's a waste of my time, but it's like a part of my system now. I hate myself because of that.



I taught myself everything , internet is my main source .

As for a cure , just work on a cool robot that you want to make that looks cool . and try to play an hour ( or 1/2 hour less) each day

I personally dont love  video games
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 10:30:15 PM
ive got a good cure. sell ur video game console and all your games like i did. i couldnt afford any good games so i sold most of them. and i learned some basic c programming from internet.


~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 10:31:37 PM
ive got a good cure. sell ur video game console and all your games like i did. i couldnt afford any good games so i sold most of them. and i learned some basic c programming from internet.


~smash

agree , except u could learn almost everything from internet
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: ed1380 on January 24, 2008, 10:34:55 PM



Off-topic: Anyone have a cure for quitting video games? I mean inside myself I don't want to and I know it's a waste of my time, but it's like a part of my system now. I hate myself because of that.


QFT

I'm still on day 4 of C programming.  :-[

but i just beat COD4  ;D  for the second time  :-\
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 10:35:47 PM
lol have u learnt much yet?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 24, 2008, 11:05:12 PM
I don't have a console, I play on PC. My CD games are messed up and I don't play them. I play the free multiplayer kind of games.

Quote
agree , except u could learn almost everything from internet
except experience  :D

My dad is a computer programmer and he knows C pretty well. Is his computer knowledge applicable to robots? Or is it just for computers? He knows Basic too kinda.

Also, I don't get how it could go over $200. PCB-$120 max, motors-$30, chassis material-20$ ???, speed controller (3) $75 max, sensors-50$??? Oh whoopsie. Hehe. Total is (embarrassingly): 245$-300$. Good estimate airman.  :-[  :-[ 

OK, that's it. Thanks.
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 11:07:58 PM
lol but theres a LOT of other things you would need like sensors, leds, capasatators, transistors, blah blah blah. but most can be scrapped from some electronics. just for me can i use a soldering iron to desolder?


~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 24, 2008, 11:12:29 PM
I don't have a console, I play on PC. My CD games are messed up and I don't play them. I play the free multiplayer kind of games.

Quote
agree , except u could learn almost everything from internet
except experience  :D

My dad is a computer programmer and he knows C pretty well. Is his computer knowledge applicable to robots? Or is it just for computers? He knows Basic too kinda.

Also, I don't get how it could go over $200. PCB-$120 max, motors-$30, chassis material-20$ ???, speed controller (3) $75 max, sensors-50$??? Oh whoopsie. Hehe. Total is (embarrassingly): 245$-300$. Good estimate airman.  :-[  :-[ 

OK, that's it. Thanks.

ok C is just a language like Spanish or English. Just  there are different "dialects" for computers and for microcontrollers. They have different registers ,etc If he knows C, he can learn it for microcontrollers in a day.

As for costs , why not get that toy I recommended to hack. Hack that , understand whats happening , then move on to build a new one.
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 24, 2008, 11:15:12 PM
@Smash:
You can use your soldering iron to desolder properly ONLY if you have a desoldering braid. Here is an example:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062744&cp=&sr=1&origkw=desoldering+braid&kw=desoldering+braid&parentPage=search

Quote
As for costs , why not get that toy I recommended to hack. Hack that , understand whats happening , then move on to build a new one.
Could I scrap many parts from it? Would it be worth to buy it?

Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 24, 2008, 11:23:45 PM
from a toy probibly not...maybe only motors.
and oooh i gotta get me a desoldering braid...


~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 25, 2008, 07:23:33 AM

Quote
As for costs , why not get that toy I recommended to hack. Hack that , understand whats happening , then move on to build a new one.
Could I scrap many parts from it? Would it be worth to buy it?


[/quote]

The toy is already a flying robot that avoids obstacles!  By seeing how that works you can get ideas
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 25, 2008, 09:16:34 AM
OK garri is going to be building either a tricopter or a qudracopter i guess ? what are the advantages of each

and how would directional flight be accomplished with either version?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: dunk on January 25, 2008, 11:36:30 AM
i would recommend starting with a balancing "segway" type robot.
this way you can practice with the sensors and algorithms needed for flight but only in one dimension.
once you have a 2 wheeled bot balancing you can take the next step of applying the same theory to an aircraft.

dunk.
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 25, 2008, 09:53:43 PM
OK, I KNOW that this is too hard for me to even try to do for now. I am definitely saving it for when I have more exp. Sorry, and I just don't have that kind of money yet.

I don't know I might do something simpler like a sumo robot. (with a drill as weapon) muwhahahaha  :P
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 25, 2008, 11:55:20 PM
that would be kinda cool. if i ever make a battle bot im gonna put a small pick axe on a servo as the weapon! lol anyway airman00 please tell me if you are going ahead with yours ;D


~smash
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 27, 2008, 10:32:20 AM
I would build a flying robot once I find all the sensors for cheap. And also I do not really have time, so it would have to wait till summer
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 27, 2008, 03:32:26 PM
ya you owe it to your name to build one ;D
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 27, 2008, 04:54:29 PM
Smash go here:

http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3038.0 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3038.0)

 ;D

Quote
hahaha lol i knew that was coming...but ive stopped the useless posts.
;)
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on January 27, 2008, 07:00:08 PM
ya ok
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 27, 2008, 07:26:55 PM
uhh i've read it..hence me posting in it.

Garriwilson was referring to your useless post
ya you owe it to your name to build one ;D

SERIOUSLY GUYS , keep the crap out
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: KaweS on January 30, 2008, 04:50:29 PM
hi,
let's back to the topic ;]

i'm new to robotics as well. my advantages are that i can program in C [for computers, but someone already did mention it will take me a day to learn in] and i can spend a bit more ;p
my disadvantage is that i didn't even build a $50 robot ;p
i built just a 'vehicle' based on 2 CDs, polyester body and a DC motor form my ex-CD-ROM ;] it can go forward and even backward if i change connections ;ppp
i know that's nothing, but i'm a bit ambitious and i learn really fast if i want to learn something

once again - let's get back ;p
i'd like to build a robot which can fly [preferably with wings - not rotors] [see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hGYWVdzVk] but definitely not r/c but autonomous. i want it to fly around me and avoid obstacles.
i guess i'll need lots of sensors and quite good ic.

ok - now the questions ;p
how can i tell the robot where am i? satnav or what? ;p i don't expect to come to me hundreds of miles, but let's say from my room to kitchen ;p i want to put for example plan of my flat and use wavefront algorithm - is that a good idea?
what kind of ICs could i need? i think lot's of memory and fast processing time - maybe 8 bit is not enough?
what materials can i use? what for body/wings?
what about flying time? i don't want it to run just for 5 minutes... i know - more power - heavier batteries
what about costs... i know i cannot expect too good news regarding this point ;p

to be honest i'm thinking already about version 2, but for now that's enough ;p

thanks a lot for any help and ideas ;]

cheers,
Karol
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on January 30, 2008, 04:55:57 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way but I think you should make your own thread. Include the building progress and stuff there.

Quote
i built just a 'vehicle' based on 2 CDs, polyester body and a DC motor form my ex-CD-ROM ;] it can go forward and even backward if i change connections ;ppp
i know that's nothing, but i'm a bit ambitious and i learn really fast if i want to learn something
You mean the 2 CDs are the wheels, a DC motor is geared to the axle and you use a battery pack with a switch and little connectors that you clip on to your motor?

I actually did a very similar car just this semester in my engineering club. It is considered a very beginner project but it helps with mechanics if you are new.

Good luck on your flying robot.
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: KaweS on January 30, 2008, 05:35:25 PM
maybe that's a good idea
so... can i ask a moderator or an admin to create a new thread or at least remove this one and i'll create a new one ;p

ps. my 'vehicle' is exactly like you describe. i'll try to post a vid of it in couple of days ;]
ps2. please, forgive my english, cause it's not my native lang ;p
cheers
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on January 30, 2008, 05:49:34 PM
just make a new thread yourself in Mechanics and COnstruction , title being Building a Flying Robot

I have a lot of ideas , so post the thread and ill reply there
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: Admin on February 03, 2008, 05:09:54 PM
So summing things up . . . someone wants to make a flying robot (or any difficult robot) with the experience of building a robot before.

Let me tell you what I am doing to build my biped . . . the problem I have is that I want to build a small biped that can run crazy fast . . . but its crazy hard to do . . . so instead of tackling the 'build a biped' problem, instead I am taking a modular approach doing the 'build the modules' problem instead. I am designing just the controller, then just the power system, then just the foot, then just the leg, etc.

For example, instead of build a flying robot, make your goal something like:
find a good airplane motor with propellor
get the $50 Robot to control a fan motor (with motor driver)
get the $50 Robot to control the fan motor with an accelerometer
control four fan motors with $50 Robot controller
build a light weight chassis with four motors and $50 robot controller
measure power draw
select battery
etc.

Just go down that list, breaking up the large problem into little problems, using what you already have and know as a starting place. It's the engineering approach, really ;D

remember to CAD it first and keep the weight low.

oh and I highly recommend using carbon fiber:
http://www.societyofrobots.com/materials_carbonfiber.shtml
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: garriwilson on February 03, 2008, 05:36:08 PM
Thank you! I hope this post doesn't get deleted by the time I have enough experience to build one of those. However, I think you should put that post here: http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3098.0;topicseen

Seems like someone got an inspiration from my post.  ;D
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on February 03, 2008, 05:37:38 PM
GREAT NEWS GUYS!

I just got ~500 bucks to spend towards a flying robot

Now my goal right now is to make it hover in the same position without crashing

First , what design do I do ? A quadracopter or a tricopter?

then we'll carry on from there
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: Admin on February 03, 2008, 05:57:37 PM
Quote
A quadracopter or a tricopter?
The heaviest part of your robot will be the motor, but each motor supplies thrust to lift your bot.

So if each motor gives you .1 lb net thrust, then 4 motors would allow your robot to weigh .4lb. Additional motors will make it more stable too.

If you have the money, why not use 6 motors and carry something heavy! ;D

(food for thought)
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on February 03, 2008, 06:00:38 PM
I'm assuming the 6 motors would have to be in a ring, right?

meaning the motors on the sides and no motors in the middle


also the motors on the helicopter would be regular DC motors , but would it be better to modify these servos ? http://www.helihobby.com/html/helicopter_servo.html (http://www.helihobby.com/html/helicopter_servo.html)
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: KaweS on February 03, 2008, 06:58:13 PM
i always divide problems into modules [i'm a kinda programmer] ;p but not only in solving such kind of problems. i use it every day when i just live - that's my natural behaviour and i need to say that is very useful.

and ammm... well... sorry to say that, garriwilson - you didn't inspire me. i was really bored at my work and i was thinking what can i do with my free time what will take me probably some years and could be useful.

airman: i love those servos - they're so... so... helicopterful ;]
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: airman00 on February 03, 2008, 06:59:44 PM
yes but can I use those servos?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: Admin on February 03, 2008, 07:10:56 PM
Quote
I'm assuming the 6 motors would have to be in a ring, right?
nope, just weight balanced
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: KaweS on February 03, 2008, 07:12:39 PM
uh... don't ask me - i just started to learn those things, but i don't see any obstacles to not
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on February 03, 2008, 11:25:43 PM
those servos may work if you can balance them properly but why six? do you need to lift a heavy load?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: skatj on February 03, 2008, 11:48:29 PM
Quote
A quadracopter or a tricopter?

Quadcopters are a lot easier to drive than tricopters.

Quadcopters can simply use differential thrust to steer, while tricopters require adjustable pitch rotors to steer, which is infinitely more complicated.

Read the Wikipedia article on quadrotors, its helpful.

btw, did you just ask if you should use modified continuous rotation "helicopter" servos for the main rotor?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on February 04, 2008, 12:23:20 AM
yes he did..these http://www.helihobby.com/html/helicopter_servo.html
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: hemanth on May 29, 2009, 04:09:04 AM
http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/46 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/46)
It says Acess Denied. ???Can anyone help?
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: Razor Concepts on May 29, 2009, 04:11:04 AM
It has been deleted because it was not finished.
Title: Re: Flying robot
Post by: SmAsH on May 29, 2009, 05:01:43 AM
yes, there are a fair few tutorials that were unfinished that admin deleted...
check this topic http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=7579.0 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=7579.0)