Society of Robots - Robot Forum
Electronics => Electronics => Topic started by: Maltaeron on January 24, 2008, 08:52:50 PM
-
I have practically gone insane from the AVRISP MKII controller by now, so I resort to finally creating an account and asking all you awesome people here for help. :) I have read all the documentation on both the programmer and controller (well, almost all), and as far as I can see, everything is connected the way it is supposed to.
Anyways, the problem is that when I have powered the board and plugged in the programmer, all I get is an incessant orange flashing, and an error saying either I have the ISP pins in incorrectly, or the pull-up resistor on the reset pin is too strong (stronger than 4.7k ohms). I have played around with a number of things but nothing as worked. Also note that below the voltage regulator the breadboard is slightly melted (connected ground and power in reverse :'(), nothing seems to have been harmed though, as replacing the components doesn't help.
Thank you, brave soul for helping the meager underling that is myself!
-
In the pictures, you don't have a pullup resistor on the reset line.
Other than that, you seem to have it wired correctly...
- Jon
-
As in what? I'm not sure what that is, and the 50$ robot tutorial doesn't mention it either...
-
You need to put a resistor (I typically use a 10K one) between pin 1 on the AVR (RESET) and your 5 volt bus.
- Jon
-
Can you use a multimeter to check the voltages on your power pins?
-
It has an internal pull up, dont worry about that (just dont leave your programmer plugged into it without power).
(http://www.equinox-tech.com/products/images/equinox/6way_atmel_230.jpg)
(http://www.equinox-tech.com/products/images/equinox/6w_idc_header.jpg)
I think you have the orientation of the programmer pins wrong. You have pin one going to VCC, instead of MISO. Pin two you have going to MISO instead of VCC. etc. etc.
See if that works.
-Buk
-
Well, my isp setup still looks right to me. Looking at the voltages, things seem a little weird. Without regulation the battery set reads 5.15V, and after it, 3.84V. As well, none of the components are warm either. Also I already tried some resistor from the power bus to the reset pin, though nothing seemed to happen...
-
Without regulation the battery set reads 5.15V, and after it, 3.84V
yeap, I suspected this was your problem.
Your battery needs to be about 6V for the regulator to give a 5V output. Go recharge it! ;)
Always do this when debugging circuits:
http://www.societyofrobots.com/robot_faq.shtml#circuit_debug
-
It is 4 1.2v cells, looking at the overall pic, how can I add another one without having to resort to alkaline cells?
-
yea thats only 4.8V . . . you need another cell in parallel. Either solder some wires to it (search the forum for instructions) or get a 2nd battery holder.
-
I put the extra 1.2v cell in series, which is what I think you meant.
Unregulated: 6.35V, Regulated: 4.88V
It's the regulator in the 50$ robot tutorial, but the programmer still blinks orange...
:(
-
Call me a retard, but i still think you have it wired wrong. Pin one is next to the red wire, on the inside, pins 2, 4, 6 are on the outside.
I still think you have pin one on the programmer going to Vcc, and the rest of them reversed also.
-
Looking at my and your pics, both have pin 1 next to pin 3, which has an indent. As well, after switching it around, it couldn't even detect anything connected at all! (I switched the connection inside the programmer for convenience, =)).
-
I put the extra 1.2v cell in series, which is what I think you meant.
oops, yea, in series. I was rushing with my reply so I could catch my bus . . .
anyway, Maltaeron, bukowski is right.
your pin 1 is connected to ground instead of miso, for example. a quick look at the bottom image that bukowski posted shows pin 1 . . .
http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3013.msg22300#msg22300
-
Ok, switched directly too now, although I am now getting an error saying, "target appears to have lost power" with a solid red light.
Still, the problem I have with switching the orientation is that I still think pin 3 should be the notched pin, not pin 4...
Thanks again, though :)
-
well i didn't check all your pins, but im pretty sure all of them are wrong and should be swapped . . .
hope you didnt fry anything ;)
-
If you look at the closeup picture from the first post, its pretty clear he had the pins done correctly.
Pin 1 is on the same side of the 3x2 as the little outdent. The gray wire goes to that pin, and is going to MISO (as it should). Pin 2 is on the flat side, and the yellow wire goes to Vcc, as it should. Pin 5 is the red wire, and it goes to pin 1 on the ATmega168, which is the reset pin.
This is all correct.
If you're using a 7805 as your voltage regulator, you should be feeding it at least 7 volts - the voltage drop on those is pretty nasty. Get a 6 cell battery holder, or a 7.2 volt or 9.6 volt R/C battery pack, and use that.
- Jon
-
Well, anyways this is how they are now, not working... lol
-
Switched back header connections to the original, and added another cell to the battery, unregulated: 7.6V regulated: 4.9V
I wonder if 5V regulator really means that as input voltage approaches infinity, output approaches 5... lol
Orange blinking is back as well with the "The ISP connector appears to have been connected the wrong way, or the rest line may have an incorrect pull-up." error.
Thinking about my luck, I wouldn't be too surprised if it was just some weird mistake in the programmer... That would prove I have been cursed... Considering that I just had a short-circuit in my battery for a few seconds trying to add the 6th cell. :)
-
the wiring looks correct . . . I just realized the image that bukowski supplied shows the connector connected in reverse to how it is on your connector, resulting in my confusion . . .
hmmmm try connecting microcontroller pins 7 and 8 to power and ground respectively and see what happens . . . but I think they are already connected internally (im too lazy to check the datasheet)
there is the chance you damaged the programmer when you shorted stuff . . . I broke one of my programmers once by reversing power to it . . . back in my noob days :-\
-
7 & 8 are connected, you just can't see that in the most recent pic, looking a little farther back to the top images, the connections are there.
Also, I don't think the programmer could have been damaged because the three times I shorted(or something similar) was when:
1) I connected ground and power in reverse, I think all the energy was contained to the regulator considering the breadboard melted on its three pins and nothing else got even warm.
3) I connected the microcontroller's power and ground in reverse.
2) Connected part of battery in a loop, with no external connections.
As well, because I bought extra, I have been able make sure neither the microcontroller or voltage regulator have been damaged, though for aesthetic reasons I switched the regulator.
-
You still don't appear to have a pullup resistor on the RESET line. You have to have an external pullup on the RESET line in order to program the AVR.
Throw a 10K resistor between pin 1 on the AVR and Vcc and see if that helps.
- Jon
-
You have to have an external pullup on the RESET line in order to program the AVR.
hmmmm not true, I've never programmed an AVR with a resistor on the reset line . . . perhaps its already built into the programmer?
I'm kinda stuck on solving this one . . . I'm thinkin just take the whole thing apart and start over again, perhaps there is something missed . . . I'd also check the breadboard with a multimeter to make sure it doesn't have any traces broken/missing inside . . .
-
If your multimeter has a continuity check, use it and see that you have continuity between each of the wires sticking out of your programmer plug and the corresponding pin on the AVR (which essentially checks what Admin was saying, that your breadboard doesn't have any broken traces). Also check between your +5 bus and the Vcc pins, and your ground bus and the ground pins on the AVR.
Make sure your output voltage is 5 volts - if it isn't, use a battery with more cells.
Try the pullup resistor on RESET anyways - it can't hurt.
After that, you're down to trying another AVR chip (in case you fried that one), and if that doesn't work, trying a different programmer.
- Jon
-
Huh, even with changing the controller and adding a pull-up, it still blinks incessantly. I even tried reprogramming the firmware, also to no avail. :(
Considering that the problem might be with the programmer (like hardware or something), is there any warranty on it? I bought it from digikey, but I don't know if that makes any difference. Also should I bother trying this with atmel's support (if any?), as well, what is the real difference between the AVR ISP programmer and the AVR ISP MKII? Might the former work better?
Thanks for all the support. :)
-
Hi all,
I'm also new to AVR's, though I've done a fair bit of ICSP with PIC's, and I'm seeing the exact same behavior as Maltaeron using an AVRISP mkII and an ATMega168. I get nothing but an orange blinking light when I connect the AVRISP mkII to the target.
I've tried two different experimental setups, and two different brand-new AVRISP mkII's, with the same results.
1) I just put an ATMega168 + 7805 on a solderless breadboard, with pwr, ground, 3-wire-SPI, and a 1k-1M pullup on RESET'.
2) A brand new, verified working, Arduino Diecimila board.
I'm pretty sure I've got the polarity of the AVRISP mkII 6-pin IDC correct, but I get the same results in both setups regardless of which way I plug it in.
The computer is talking to the AVRISP mkII fine; in fact, it can correctly read the 5.0-5.2V rail of my target in both setups. AVRStudio insisted on updating each programmer's firmware the first time I connected them.
Anyway, if I were just seeing this on setup #1 (my wiring), I'd assume it was my fault. The fact that the Arduino, which explicitly advertises that you can reflash it with an AVRISP mkII, has the same behavior, makes me think there's some kind of bug with the programmer, unless there's a prep step I'm missing in both setups.
I don't have any other ATMega/Tiny chips to try this with, so I don't know if the programmers work on other targets.
-
Wow, and I though I was the only one, :)
That it didn't work on the Arduino board really surprises me, makes me think that maybe this is a regression with the firmware. I will see if I can downgrade it...
Glad to know this isn't only some obscure problem of mine :)
-
Well, here's a picture of my AVRISP MKII, plugged into one of my ATmega168 boards I just had printed.
As you can see, both green lights are on. I bought my programmer from Digikey as well.
This is what AVRStudio reports for my programmer:
Getting revisions.. HW: 0x01, FW Major: 0x01, FW Minor: 0x06 .. OK
- Jon
-
What is the schematic for that? I looked for the board on Google as "bloloid" but couldn't find anything... Also, what revision of Avr Studio are you using?
Thanks
-
What is the schematic for that? I looked for the board on Google as "bloloid" but couldn't find anything... Also, what revision of Avr Studio are you using?
Thanks
Search google for BIOLOID not bloloid . You will get a ton of hits
-
I don't have a schematic (never made one), but I can show the PCB layout, since this is such a simple board...
I'll also attach a better picture of the board itself.
I use AVRStudio to do the programming and setting the fuse bits. I'm using version 4.13, Build 528.
- Jon
-
HAH Bioloid, not Bloloid! :D
Huh, only thing I see that you are doing different is with the little orangish things on the power lines, are they capacitors? What is their purpose?
Thanks, again
-
huh, your right. I just looked at my programmer and the plug is installed opposite of yours. wierd. I shouldve paid more attention.
-
Huh, only thing I see that you are doing different is with the little orangish things on the power lines, are they capacitors? What is their purpose?
Yes, they are capacitors, as specified in the data sheet for the voltage regulator I am using (L4931). They help smooth out the voltage regulation, but if you want to know more than that, you should talk to someone who knows something about electronics (I'm really a software guy).
In my 2x3 programming header on the PCB, pin 1 is on the bottom left, btw...
- Jon
-
Huh, well now I'm really stuck.
Considering what everyone else has said, I can't see what the problem is if not the programmer.
I repeat:
Considering that the problem might be with the programmer (like hardware or something), is there any warranty on it? I bought it from digikey, but I don't know if that makes any difference. Also should I bother trying this with atmel's support (if any?), as well, what is the real difference between the AVR ISP programmer and the AVR ISP MKII? Might the former work better?
Thanks
-
For reference, my software/firmware is:
AVRStudio 4.13 sp2,
HW: 0x01, FW Major: 0x01, FW Minor: 0x06 ... OK.
I bought my two AVRISP mkII's from Digikey within the last week. When did you all get yours? I wonder if they have a batch of bad HW... Anyway, I've opened a support call with Atmel, but haven't heard back yet.
Meanwhile, I ordered a USBtinyISP AVR kit from adafruit.com, and a parallel programmer for backup. Sigh.
-
@Maltaeron: Don't go insane !
I just registered here so I could chime in on this thread, after finding you all via a google search. I've got two brand new AVRISPmkIIs that are exhibiting the same symptom: flashing orange whenever connected to target, regardless of pull-up resistor on RESET. And this is with target boards that have known good CPUs on them, actually running code (that was previously flashed with an STK500).
I've been over on the avrfreaks forum, talking with a couple of people there, and one person who is having the same problem. I'm not sure about him, but the two AVRISPmkIIs I have were also recently ordered from Digikey.
@bshir: I also opened a support request with Atmel, and am awaiting response.
FWIW: I've been using Atmel parts since their introduction back in '97, and I've been using an STK500 for years now without problem. I'm pretty confident that if this problem *is* the symptom of a bad batch of programmers, that once it's set right, the AVRISPmkII will be just as reliable as my STK500.
-jeremy
oh - and my software is AVRStudio 4.13 sp2, firmware is FWMajor=0x01, FWMinor=0x06
-
That's really interesting. I have two of those programmers (AVRISP mkII), also bought from Digikey, but I bought mine a long time ago (almost a year ago for one, and probably nine months ago for the other).
They both work great...
- Jon
-
tritical, thanks! please keep us updated.
what is the real difference between the AVR ISP programmer and the AVR ISP MKII? Might the former work better?
The MKII uses USB instead of RS232 to connect to your PC. The original ISP supports both the 6 pin and 10 pin connectors, where the MKII only supports 6 pin connectors.
I have a few of the originals around so I haven't bought the MKII yet. But I was planning to put an order in for one today, so maybe I should hold off until this problem is resolved?
-
An email I received from digikey when I got my mkII:
Design Support Services Bulletin
Thank you for your recent purchase of the ATMEL ATAVRISP2 development system from Digi-Key Corporation.
Digi-Key Design Support Services (DSS) is ready to assist you with any questions or startup issues that you might encounter with this engineering tool. Our application engineers can provide you with in-depth design and component selection recommendations for your project, at no cost to you.
Learn more about Digi-Key's Design Support Services Team: Learn More
If you are not the ultimate user of this product, please forward this email to the requesting engineer.
Contact Us:
Toll Free: 1-877-DKDESIGN (1-877-353-3744)
Fax: 218-681-3380
Email: [email protected]
Staffing hours: 8:00am - 5:00pm Central Time
We look forward to discussing your application questions or concerns.
Regards,
Digi-Key Design Support Services Team
You might want to contact them also.
-
I bought my AVR ISP MKII about 7 months ago and it works perfectly fine after I set the frequencies and such correctly in AVR Studio.
My problem was that I had incorrectly mis-identified the pins MULTIPLE TIMES when I was attaching the 2x3 ISP header to my board. I desoldered it many times and resoldered it again and again to fix the problem but I still didnt get it right. Took me forever to finally realize my mistake. I was so pissed off at myself for missing such a detail... My troubles are logged in a thread somewhere on here about connecting the 2x3 AVR to the board :P Try taking a look at that thread (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=1045.0) to see if it helps you
Gotta run off to work now. Cya guys
-
@bshir: the two mkIIs I have were purchased from Digikey within the last week or so. Here is the info on the bottom of the two units I have:
date: 20071012 usb# 00B0024073
date: 20071012 usb# 00B0024254
@all: at the suggestion of another avrfreaks member, I tried using one of my mkIIs via avrdude, instead of the programming window within AVRStudio4. I had to temporarily switch USB drivers in order to do this, as the driver bundled with AVRStudio does not play well with the driver bundled with WinAVR.
and... Success ! Despite the flashing orange status, avrdude merrily instructs the mkII to go out and talk to the target. Interestingly, after reading out the flash memory of my target, the status light went GREEN ! Of course, disconnecting then reconnecting the target cable gets you back to flashing orange.
cautious conclusion: The mkIIs in question seem to work. AVRStudio could probably talk to the target chip just fine, if it weren't so obstinate about stopping you at the "there's something wrong with your cable" dialog.
confident conclusion: my hardware setup (cables, connectors, power supply) have been fine all along.
I would say we're looking at a defective batch of mkIIs, but am still awaiting response to the support ticket from Atmel. I may also contact Digikey as suggested.
-jeremy
-
What did you change the driver to? And did you just use the device manager to do it?
I tried this with the "normal" driver, which didn't work:
avrdude -p m168 -P usb -v -c avrispmkII -e -U flash:w:RobotMain.hex
Did not find any matching usb device "usb"
Thanks, and I'd love to hear the excuse behind all of this! :D
P.S.
I am using avr studio 4.13.571 sp2
-
@Maltaeron: yes, I suppose you could use the device manager to un-install just the Jungo USB driver that was installed by AVRStudio4. On the machine I was trying this on, I went ahead and un-installed the whole AVRStudio4 package.
(bear with me, I'm writing this down from memory, and am not on the machine that I did the test on)
With the Jungo driver out of the way, I installed WinAVR.
So, now when you connect the AVRISPmkII to the PC via the USB cable, Windows will announce that it has found new hardware. Choose 'specify driver location', and click OK. On the next page, choose 'include this location in search', and in the drop-down, browse to '~/utils/libusb/bin', where ~ is the base install directory for WinAVR. Windows should find the driver there and finish up the installation.
After all that, on my machine, avrdude was able to find the AVRISPmkII on the USB bus.
I hope that helps ! And I'm still waiting for any word from Atmel...
-
HA, I am SOOOOOOO glad that that just worked! :D
Also, I didn't even have to uninstall avr studio!
Now, lets see what the real thing behind this was... Waiting... Waiting...
:)
-
I've been talking with an AE at Digikey. He believes that my AVRISP mkII's are defective, and suggests that I return them. He also says that they are going to sort through their stock of mkII's and figure out if one of the batches is bad. Tritical, you might send your serial numbers to [email protected] as well. They seem to be responsive.
Also, an Atmel support rep has also gotten back to me, but I haven't convinced him that it's not just my wiring yet. Maybe they'll believe Digikey. ;D
Anyway, I haven't tried avrdude yet; I'll probably try that before returning the ones I've got. I'd still rather have manufacturer-certified programmers than something I have to work around... it's a little unnerving not being able to use Atmel's official programmer with Atmel's official software to program Atmel's products.
cautious conclusion: The mkIIs in question seem to work. AVRStudio could probably talk to the target chip just fine, if it weren't so obstinate about stopping you at the "there's something wrong with your cable" dialog.
...
I would say we're looking at a defective batch of mkIIs
I agree. On wrong reel of resistors, or baking incorectly and having cracked solder, could cause a marginal electrical problem that would trip the pedantic mkII protection circuitry, but everything else might still work.
My mkII serial numbers are:
20071012 00B0024270
20071012 00B0024079
If I'm reading these right, then my 2 units are from the same batch (2007/10/12?) as Tritical's. Interesting...
-
I've been talking with an AE at Digikey. He believes that my AVRISP mkII's are defective, and suggests that I return them. He also says that they are going to sort through their stock of mkII's and figure out if one of the batches is bad. Tritical, you might send your serial numbers to [email protected] as well. They seem to be responsive.
Also, an Atmel support rep has also gotten back to me, but I haven't convinced him that it's not just my wiring yet. Maybe they'll believe Digikey. ;D
Anyway, I haven't tried avrdude yet; I'll probably try that before returning the ones I've got. I'd still rather have manufacturer-certified programmers than something I have to work around... it's a little unnerving not being able to use Atmel's official programmer with Atmel's official software to program Atmel's products.
cautious conclusion: The mkIIs in question seem to work. AVRStudio could probably talk to the target chip just fine, if it weren't so obstinate about stopping you at the "there's something wrong with your cable" dialog.
...
I would say we're looking at a defective batch of mkIIs
I agree. On wrong reel of resistors, or baking incorectly and having cracked solder, could cause a marginal electrical problem that would trip the pedantic mkII protection circuitry, but everything else might still work.
My mkII serial numbers are:
20071012 00B0024270
20071012 00B0024079
If I'm reading these right, then my 2 units are from the same batch (2007/10/12?) as Tritical's. Interesting...
very interesting
when you do find your solution please post it up for others !!! ;)
-
Glad all you people are getting in contact. My serial number is: 20071012 00B0024057
Looks like again, the same batch.
And how is it that one returns something to digikey? I couldn't find anything on their site...
-
The DigiKey AE said to call their phone number (which from the website is 1-800-344-4539), ask for Customer Service, and request an Return For Evaluation (RFE). I haven't tried it yet.
There's also an RMA request form on the website, under "Contact Us".
-
So just to follow up on this thread, DigiKey and Atmel have both agreed that the 20071012 batch of AVRISP mkII's may be prone to failure. When I finally called DigiKey for the Return-For-Evaluation, they immediately overnighted me replacements free of charge. DigiKey is covering all the shipping costs of the replacement, without waiting for me to send the old ones back, though they are in the mail now. (Good service!)
Anyway, the new AVRISP mkII's come in different packaging and are from date code 20070404. I get an instant green-light when connecting to an Arudino, and I'm able to read a bunch of fuses & stuff off the Atmega168. Looks like we have a winner.
Thanks to all on this forum for your support and participation in nailing down this issue. Otherwise I'd have gone insane from the blinking orange light too!
-
ive got a 20061009
Im assuming that means mine was made September, 10th, 2006?
Mine works fine
-
This just in - AVR have posted a firmware update for the AVRISPmkII programmer, which addresses the BOLOD (blinking-orange-led-of-doom) problem. More info here:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=643&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 (http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=643&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
-
Excellent!
Now I'll buy my programmer :P
-
Hello,
there is a firmware update available at:
www.atmel.no/beta_ware/
to fix the orange blinking problem.