Society of Robots - Robot Forum
Electronics => Electronics => Topic started by: Webbot on February 19, 2008, 11:47:26 PM
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Before I started building the $50 robot I thought it would be good to have some kind of circuit diagram or at least a check list of what needs to connect to what. Mainly so I could check my soldering, volatages etc etc. So thought I would post the attached PDF document (in a ZIP file) that allows you to turn on/off layers on the board to see what's what. Old news to most - but 'may' be good news to some.
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why havent i seen this before. this is great. IMO it should be added to the original tutorial. it would have solved so many questions on the forum
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No question, admin has to put this in the tutorial. This is amazing. Admin IMO you should put this in the 50$ tutorial as soon as you see this. This will be very helpful. Thank you webbot this is a great contribution.
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Just wanted to say thank you also. This is great! Really helpful!
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WOW, this is impressive, I had trouble trying to figure out what all is connected to what, and I didn't even know that this was possible in a PDF!
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This is great! I was worried about the connections for the $50 robot, but this is just so much simpler! I'm definately using this when I make the microcontroller. No doubt that Admin has to put this in the tutorial.
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Beautiful
Let me add my voice to the "this should be in the tutorial" chorus.
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Ok, its been added as a link right under the colored dot schematic.
(debating how long it will take for all questions on the schematic to suddenly end up in this thread :P)
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This way is much easier for me to understand! =D The dotted schematic didn't show where the other breakaways went... Do not know why that confused me.
Anyways, Appreciate your efforts for creating this! ;D
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did you do this all by yourself or did you have help from a program(obviosly Adobe to show it off)
i need to know,because i want to create a baord from this schematic and i need a program to change it into a pcb
http://www.olimex.com/dev/images/avr-pg1b-sch.gif (http://www.olimex.com/dev/images/avr-pg1b-sch.gif)
cheers goatfish
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goatfish, Eagle is what I use to turn schematics into PCBs.
That schematic you posted was made in Eagle.
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did you do this all by yourself or did you have help from a program(obviosly Adobe to show it off)
I actually did it in Microsoft Visio which, with Acrobat Professional, then allowed me to save it as a PDF including all the 'layers'.
Eagle is what I use to turn schematics into PCBs.
Yeah quite right - but you won't be able to do it from my PDF - of course. This would mean having to re-create the circuit in Eagle - and perhaps someone may do this and contribute it to the community. Eagle is great for going to PCB but has no option, as I understand it, to come up with a layout on matrix board or strip board. Given that most beginners will be using that format then thats why I choose the sledgehammer approach to create a matrix board layout using whatever 'drawing' tools I had available.
Give me a few hours and I'll knock together an Eagle 5 schematic - which would then help to produce your PCB design.
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oh thank-you so much ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :) :) :) ;) ;),i look forward to seeing that,i tried to make the board in eagle but it wouldn't let me auto-route it,because its the lite edition
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i followed this schematic pdf, i found some problem:
1. is the 4xAA battery pack for the servo output?
2. is the 9v pp3 battery for the microcontroller?
i found the voltage at the servo output is lower than the voltage at sensor input, why? is this correct?
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i tried to make the board in eagle but it wouldn't let me auto-route it,because its the lite edition
The lite edition can do autoroute.
The only thing it can't do is really large boards, and more than 2 layers.
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i followed this schematic pdf, i found some problem:
1. is the 4xAA battery pack for the servo output?
2. is the 9v pp3 battery for the microcontroller?
i found the voltage at the servo output is lower than the voltage at sensor input, why? is this correct?
Yes to both points 1 and 2. The 4xAA pack is effectiviely 4 x 1.2Volts so about 4.8V when fully charged.
The 9V PP3 battery goes to the microcontroller VIA the 5V regulator - so the controller gets 5v.
So the voltage at the servo may well be slightly lower. The difference is that the 4xAA pack can supply a higher currrent over a longer time frame. Whereas the PP3 is just feeding the controller and sensors - so doesn't consume nearly as much current as the servos do.
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i tried to make the board in eagle but it wouldn't let me auto-route it,because its the lite edition
The lite edition can do autoroute.
The only thing it can't do is really large boards, and more than 2 layers.
The 'free download' doesn't allow you to auto-route and hence my delay in posting an Eagle version. I've forked out for the 'lite' version license which then does allow you to do so. So I am should get a posting up fairly soon. Sorry for any delays.
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I don't pretend to be an expert at Eagle (this is my first attempt!). But I've attached the project, schematic and board files in the attached ZIP file.
This differs slightly from the standard $50 robot in that most I/O pins, except the Analogue to digital ports, have 2 x 3 pin headers. One using the +5v logic supply (for use with sensors etc) and another that uses the motor supply (for servos, DC motors etc). These are anotated by having either (5V) or (M) respectively on the end of their name. I've also put in a separate header for the UART. So its a bit more flexible, but requires more header pins (which are cheap). But you could always add them on an ad-hoc basis.
I've also tried to only use 90 degree angles in the design of the board - so that people using stripboard/matrixboard etc should hopefully be able to use it. As should people who can only create a single layer pcb (most of us?). So the bottom layer (blue) is the pcb tracks, and the top layer (red) can be done with bits of wire soldered onto the top of the board. As a result I've ended up doing the 'auto-routing' by hand - and it has taken me forever - so I hope someone finds it usefull !!!!
If you know what you want your I/O pins to do, and they'll never change, then you may be able to delete the superfluous stuff and generate a 'tighter' board. But I'm still pretty pleased with the result. My only addition may be to add a power switch (which is why there is a gap between the 9v battery and the regulator).
Let me know: cool, sucks, or otherwise !! Am sure you will.....
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I promise you, auto-route works in the free version:
http://www.cadsoft.de/freeware.htm
Auto-route doesn't do the best of jobs, but it can find a valid solution. I usually go back over many of the traces by hand, anyway. For my Axon, I did 90% by hand 'cause I can do better :P
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Their help file says:
The integrated Autorouter can be started from a board window with the AUTO command.
Please check your license to see whether you have access to the Autorouter module.
Which implies you need some sort of license.
When I tried it before ordering a single user license it just said 'Not available in the freeware version' (or something like that) - but after loading the purchased license key it now works.
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lol,been 2 lloooong months since i have been on here,the board didnt open in my version of eagle
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lol,been 2 lloooong months since i have been on here,the board didnt open in my version of eagle
I used Eagle 5.1.0
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Ok. Here's my latest bunch of files - including Eagle board and schematic files, Eagle 3D image (yeah - I know its missing the switch), a PDF of the PCB, and a photo of the board underway.
You may choose to implement the switch or not. I've used a double pole switch that controls the 9v battery back and the motor supply. So a word of caution:- if you are using larger motors then make sure the switch can cope with the amount of current that your motors are using. I'll probably be posting a tutorial about creating my PCB for the $50 Robot as I've learned a lot.
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Wow very sweet thanks.
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yea nice,but one slight prob,i was wanting the programming cable board made,not another version of the robot brains,sorry if you got confused,but nice work anyway
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admin, you said a link is put under the colour dot schematic but that link comes back to this discussion. What is the circuit schematic link?
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It is an attachment on the first post ;)
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I'll probably be posting a tutorial about creating my PCB for the $50 Robot as I've learned a lot.
So here's the tutorial that takes you through building the board (although the hints for building and testing as you go are applicable to most projects)
http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/190 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/190)
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There's actually 2 main attachments if you scroll through and look at my posts:
1. The first post has '50 buck bot.zip' which includes a PDF showing the $50 Robot built on the same board as used in Admins tutorial
2. A later post has '$50.zip' which contains an Eagle schematic for designing your own PCB - if you have the materials to do that.
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wow, thanks Webbot! your diagram was simple and easy to read. i was able to check my wiring in nearly half a minute. :)
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Wow, good job! Incredibly useful! Thanks!
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I don't want to be mean.... But I think there is a problem.... In the first version (I haven't seen yet the eagle version)
I think (cause this aims beginners) that connecting the two batteries should be more obvious... The connection under the
microcontroller of the two grounds is only visible if you remote the controller layer.... This might as well be very confusing
but can also work it's way to break the controller...
I really hate the thing that I may sound with a bada$$ here, but it's for making things better
not judge your work!!! ;)
Best Regards, Lefteris
Greece 8)
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This is really helpful :) Thank you very much !
Happy NEW YEAR to everyone ^^
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Hi,
Ok. Here's my latest bunch of files - including Eagle board [...]
I know it's been a while (I just stumbled over the topic), but in case you aren't aware (and not to steal your thunder), you have more errors than if you made it on an Etch-a-Scetch.
- Strange wiring can be tolerated (by some) but isn't very neat.
- You need to stay clear of acid traps, even if a vigorous rinse with an alkaline solution might get you through.
- You should stay clear of Vias if at all possible.
- The real tie breaker here is that you have shorted pins 23 to 28 by the pads of your connectors! (You'll see a lot of strange things if trying to connect it up and use the A/D lines).
I have made a revision to your board, but I haven't cleared up your shorts, since you need to, either consider other connectors, or change the pads of the ones you use.
Here's the revised board: http://that.homepage.dk/DL/$50_Robot_rev_B.brd (http://that.homepage.dk/DL/$50_Robot_rev_B.brd)
Compare it to your original and you might realize how to make your next layout better.
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Hi Soeren,
Have looked at your revision of the board and:-
1. You seem to have disconnected most of the Molex connector pins from the Ground rail !! So almost none of the IO pins would work.
2. You've replaced my Vias by changing it into a two layer board. I'd purposely made it one layer (as they are easier to make) and all the top layer lines (in red) are made by soldering wires onto the top level. I did this on purpose - so that, if someone is capable of making 2 layer boards, then its very easy to change. You've also done this to the ISP connector.
3. Pins 23 to 28 are NOT shorted out. I've made the PCB and it works fine. You can very this by uploading my Eagle schematic and running the Eagle checks against the board.
Cheers,
Webbot
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Sorry, i dont really know how to read the dot or this schematic, can someone tell me how to read it?
Thanks
joe
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this is the PCB design (attached), Joe. does anyone have the actual schematic for the $50 robot because i had it but it was deleted off of my eagle.
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Lol, i cant read that either, i dont get how to use the schematic
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Then you need to download the free Acrobat Reader from www.adobe.com
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I have acrobat reader I just dont know how to read it.
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The white dots are holes, or connections with components or bridges, the black lines are copper lines. Think of it as a PCB Mask.
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i meant a schematic with proper circuit symbols and lines and positive and negative rails (optional).
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but the schematic dosnt show were on the PC board every thing goes so its confuzed me, can someone lead me to a schematic that will.?
Thanks
Joe
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but the schematic dosnt show were on the PC board every thing goes so its confuzed me, can someone lead me to a schematic that will.?
Thanks
Joe
Joe this is how it works
You have a schematic which tells you whats involved and connections , etc.
You have a layout that shows you where to place the components on the circuit board
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I made a easy to read schematic, maybe this helps you
http://elektro.russemotto.com (http://elektro.russemotto.com)
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wow, that was easy to read. better the colour dot schematic ;)
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but the schematic dosnt show were on the PC board every thing goes so its confuzed me, can someone lead me to a schematic that will.?
Thanks
Joe
Joe this is how it works
You have a schematic which tells you whats involved and connections , etc.
You have a layout that shows you where to place the components on the circuit board
Ok, i sorta get it, but i have 2 questions
1)There are many GND black dots on the dot schematic so which bit goes were!?!? ???
2)Were can i find a layout for the $50 robot?
Thanks
Joe
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i just sent you a couple of layouts. here they are again ;D
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where exactly is the pdf schematic? I click on the link and get redirected to the forum post.
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It is attached to the first post, kind of hard to see but it's there.
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where exactly is the pdf schematic? I click on the link and get redirected to the forum post.
I've emailed you the pdf but can you try going this link http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198) which should start with the text 'Before I started building the $50 robot I thought it....' and right underneath it you should see a paper clip and '50buck bot.zip (98 KB - downloaded xxx times.)'. This is the link for the attachment.
Can you tell me if you can see and download it. The reason I ask is that I've been asked by other people who cannot see the link either and I'm just worried that its not showing for some people for some reason.
Thanks,
Webbot
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where exactly is the pdf schematic? I click on the link and get redirected to the forum post.
I've emailed you the pdf but can you try going this link http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198) which should start with the text 'Before I started building the $50 robot I thought it....' and right underneath it you should see a paper clip and '50buck bot.zip (98 KB - downloaded xxx times.)'. This is the link for the attachment.
Can you tell me if you can see and download it. The reason I ask is that I've been asked by other people who cannot see the link either and I'm just worried that its not showing for some people for some reason.
Thanks,
Webbot
I was unable to view any attachments and barely any pictures (for some reason sometimes they showed). I decided to register to see if by chance that solved the problem and low and behold it did.
Before I registered I couldn't view your attachment, but now I can....
Go figure?
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but he is registered...
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I am working on the circuit board for the $50 bot. I am at the step where it has the "Note for those using the 4.8 battery holder:". (I just added the power regulator and large black capacitor). I am using the battery holder and 9v combination. The note and accompanying image show to remove the power connection from the servo bus to the regulator. It does not show how to wire 4xAA battery pack. I downloaded the PDF circuit diagram here and it is terrific. Thanks. The PDF appears to use the power combination I have and from this diagram, it looks like I need to add another 3pin header for the 4xAA battery pack next to the one indicated in the tutorial. Then I need to add a wire from the Servo bus to this header. Have I interpreted this correctly?
Second question. For this one, I prepared an image. For the programmer input, the PDF uses the 6 pin AVR connection. I have the 10 pin connection. I looked at the circuit diagram in the original tutorial and compared it to the PDF. Can someone verify that I interpreted it correctly?
Thank you very much!
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ok, to have separate power supplies only the bus line on the left should be in contact with your pack...
look at the attached and see if you understand the wiring.
purple is regulated, red unregulated, black is ground...
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OK. Yes, that is how I understood the other diagrams. Thank you.
Do you have any comments on Question 2? Did I interpret that correctly in the lower right portion of the diagram? Thanks.
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yes, im pretty sure yours is fine...
if you really doubt it take another look at the thing on admins tutorial that looks like a dot to dot.
i know your gnd is on the right side so go from there...
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Thanks very much.
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Hi guys,
I am just starting my first robot and I am stuck with the schematic here. The post from Admin says the following for users using a battery holder pack
"1 The 4.8V from the battery holder must connect to the ground of the black capacitor and the servo power bus.
2 DO NOT connect the battery + end of the capacitor to the battery + end of 4.8V battery!!!'
But the schematic (first attachment 50buck bot) shows a connect from + of 4xAA battery to the black capacitor and no connection for the gnd. Is there something wrong with my interpretation>
Thanks,
gb
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Download the ZIP file attached to the first post on this thread. It has a nice schematic that shows the separate headers for the battery pack and how to connect everything. It is nice because it is a PDF with layers you can turn on and off.
However, when I used it, i realized I had to adjust the program header portion because I bought a 10 pin programmer and the PDF schematic showed a 6 pin. So I photoshoped it and have attached that one here. Also, after soldering the wrong connections on my voltage regulator, I found that if I printed out the schematic backwards, it was easier to follow since the connections are on the flip side of the board.
Hope that helps
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thanks for the schematic jaabot...but I am confused about the original article by admin (see the points in my previous post). The schematic is connecting the battery + of capacitor with the battery + of 4XAA battery. Is this okay?
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There are some enlarged photos on Admin's tutorial. These helped me a lot because they show you exactly where to solder. There is one for the battery pack design as well. If you use both these photos and the schematic, you should be fine. Just be careful to install the capacitor, led and voltage regulator the correct way as noted in the tutorial as they are all polorized.
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I just wanted to add my thanks to all those who contributed to this post. I found it very helpful and wish it could possibly be made a sticky.
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It's a great schematic, but do you have a 10 pin version? :)
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The OP ZIP file is 6 pin, the PNG files I posted were 10 pin. (Look on page two of this thread).
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this is for the 4.8v battery pack can you please make one for the 6V RC battery pack?
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i'd hate to sound stupid but isn't the battery pack going to the regulator?
if so [6V Battery] -> [5V Regulator] -> [Robot]
it shouldn't be any different unless your referring to something different... ;D
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I am currently waiting for my programmer and headers to come so I can build this. I have been reading almost everything I can find. I read in some other forums that the ISP2 programmer needed the reset pin pulled up on the board (at least for the atmega328p). Is this true? If so, do I just need to add 4.7Kohm or higher resistor and a 0.1uf cap?
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Before I started building the $50 robot I thought it would be good to have some kind of circuit diagram or at least a check list of what needs to connect to what. Mainly so I could check my soldering, volatages etc etc. So thought I would post the attached PDF document (in a ZIP file) that allows you to turn on/off layers on the board to see what's what. Old news to most - but 'may' be good news to some.
Looking at this graphic, I realized after I had soldered it that you have your 5v regulator on backwards compared to how admin has it in the guide - and it looks like I have therefore connected the wrong side for +. Are these things bi-directional? For safety sake I am switching it over and will just have to make sure I put the + in the right place in the final setup, but I was curious at the change if there was some reason behind it.
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yeah... I saw the difference too! I went for the pictures in Admin's tutorail to guide the placment of the 5v regulator.
I am now stuck with the prograsmmer telling me I got a MOSI short.... but I did all the connections exactly as in Webbot's layered 6pin diagram. Still scratching my head and searching the threads for something similar and an answer.
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I just wanted to say thanks for making this schematic. I'm new to this and trying to learn, so your schematic was very helpful. I started with the original, but I was getting confused and nothing was working right, so I desoldered most of my connections and I started over with your design. I got everything finished and it's working great now. Thanks for taking the time to make this up.
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[/quote]
Looking at this graphic, I realized after I had soldered it that you have your 5v regulator on backwards compared to how admin has it in the guide - and it looks like I have therefore connected the wrong side for +. Are these things bi-directional? For safety sake I am switching it over and will just have to make sure I put the + in the right place in the final setup, but I was curious at the change if there was some reason behind it.
[/quote]
@ DMCLIFTON : exectute le schematics from Webbot exactly. Although similar to Admin's there are differences (yeah...the 5v regulator is one). I redone mine and all is working. Go exactly as webbot says!
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@ DMCLIFTON : exectute le schematics from Webbot exactly. Although similar to Admin's there are differences (yeah...the 5v regulator is one). I redone mine and all is working. Go exactly as webbot says!
Aside from the flipped regulator (I had already soldered it in, so I just connected things right and have my ground and power connections flipped to match - getting a beautiful 5v so looks good) I have it mostly the same. I had also run the connecting wire between the two sides of ground like Admin did beforehand, so my ground runs like his - ground lines connected and then the ground on the sensor side run over to the two pins on the ATMega and the pin for the programmer.
Unfortunately, I've done something wrong I can't figure out: http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=13235.0 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=13235.0)
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I was considering doing the $50 robot on a breadboard and saw this and decided to change my mind, this schematic makes making the controller look a lot easier i just have one question: the wiring looks a bit different from admins to me, not sure if that's the case just want to make sure before i start. thanks.
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I was considering doing the $50 robot on a breadboard and saw this and decided to change my mind, this schematic makes making the controller look a lot easier i just have one question: the wiring looks a bit different from admins to me, not sure if that's the case just want to make sure before i start. thanks.
The wiring is actually the same but the orientation of the components is different to Admins - notably the regulator is rotated through 180 degrees. So use one design or the other don't mix the two.
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alright thanks i'll be using yours it makes it look alot easier...thanks
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Hello Webbot,
I am new to this site and almost done with my robot. On the last part and I ran into a problem. I followed your schematic but when modifying my servos, my avr isp mkII has a blinking orange light and says the isp conncetion is wrong or there is a problem w/ the reset pin. I noticed that pin 2 should go to the vcc pin of the IC but you dont have them making direct contact. Can you explain why? That is the only thing that I can think would explain this problem.
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I guess you are using the PDF of the matrix board layout. In which case when you view the PDF then on the left it will give you a list of layers you can turn on and off by clicking on the eyeball icon. Turn off the micro-controller layer and you will see that there are some other wires under the microcontroller (ie you can do the soldering on the underside of the board).
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thanks. i appreciate the help. turns out it wasnt the wiring. I forgot to plug in my atmega8 (total noob mistake). works perfectly now. thank you very much for putting the time into making that pdf. If it was not for that, I would never have been able to make this robot.
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I followed your schematic but on the last part and I ran into a problem. When I plug the power, the LED not turn on. Anyone know why this would be?
Than I use USBasp to connect and programing the micro, but my computer can't recognise the driver, can anyone help me with this problem?
Thanks...
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which programmer are you using and is it 10-pin or 6-pin? Also, what type of battery are you using?
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I followed your schematic but on the last part and I ran into a problem. When I plug the power, the LED not turn on. Anyone know why this would be?
Than I use USBasp to connect and programing the micro, but my computer can't recognise the driver, can anyone help me with this problem?
Thanks...
I was under the impression that the LED was turned on by the micro controller and it needs to be programmed first to do so. I did not think this was a power indicator LED.
I would be curious to hear what others have to say because when I powered mine up, not yet programmed, my LED is not lighting neither.
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Yep - there's lots of posting about this already - the LED is not a power indicator its an LED you can control via software.
No software to tell it to light up = a dark LED
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Cant you guys just post the complete eagle project?
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Cant you guys just post the complete eagle project?
Well its been posted umpteen times.
Admin, who came up with the original $50, posted it as more of a wiring diagram (probably as he wanted to keep it simple to newbs), I've posted my own Eagle files for my own take on it http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/191 (http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/191), and others have posted theirs. I've also posted a layered PDF of a different design. The main differences with all of these are to do with what pin headers you want.
In some ways ... the more alternatives people post the harder it gets to support folk with problems as no-one knows what they are trying to build. So another Eagle design may only confuse.
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hi im new to robotics. im attempting the $50 robot. i followed the schematic but when i try to input a hex file for the photovore through AVR studio 4...i get "entering programming mode...FAILED!"
im using an ATmega8 with AVR ISP2 Programmer
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You've probably got a soldering problem - check the connection between the reset pin on the chip with the equivalent header on programmer header pins. Or it could be any of the other programmer pins. Suggest you remove the ATmega chip (careful not to bend/break the pins) and use a meter (ohms or continuity tester) to check the connections from the chip socket to the programmer pins to make sure they are good. Also check that none of the pins have accidental short circuits to any of the other pins.
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i followed the schematic but when i try to input a hex file for the photovore through AVR studio 4...i get "entering programming mode...FAILED!"
im using an ATmega8 with AVR ISP2 Programmer
In the dropdown list of microcontrollers, which one did you choose? At what programming speed? What color is the programming LED showing?
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thanks for your help but as it turns out, i think all i had to do was to make my ATmega chip fully go into the DIP sockets.
at first i only pushed in the chip til all pins seemed like they were in but i pushed it in some more and now it works
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what is the resistance used in the 50$robot.
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what is the resistance used in the 50$robot.
"How big is everything?"
"What is the meaning of life?"
"Are cats just small dogs but fluffier?"
These, and yours, are great questions - but impossible for most mortals to answer.
But seriously: 'the resistance' of what?
P.S. "Resistance is futile !".