Society of Robots - Robot Forum

General Misc => Misc => Topic started by: Sam_Charette on March 11, 2007, 02:21:53 PM

Title: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on March 11, 2007, 02:21:53 PM
Ok, so I've finally took some pictures and a video of the robot I built and mentioned in the Woot (http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=669.0) topic, so here they are.  Say hello to Remi!

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remi1.JPG)

He's a simple little thing, with the body of a removable hard drive enclosure, that, when tethered to his controller there, scoots around the floor.  The wiring for him is pretty simple, as shown here:

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remi3.JPG)

It's just the two motors hooked up to an RJ45 jack that then goes to the controller.  The batteries are on the base, of course, as the box for the controller was barely big enough for the switches and electronics for it.

Here's the bottom of him.  As you can see he's not really set up right for the whole center of gravity thing, and as such when he moves his motors don't always have the torque to get him going.  I did what I could, as he's powered by 8 AA batteries, and I wanted to keep the drilling to a minimum, and still be able to close the top.

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remi4.JPG)

Here's a closeup on the wheel.  You'll notice some green stuff on it where the motor connects.  This is actually a modelling putty that is pretty easy to work with and gets pretty hard after it sits a while.  I didn't have the luxury of having motors and wheels that really fit each other, nor did I have anything that would connect the two better, so I used this stuff.  The wheels aren't 100% aligned as a result, but they work fine.  For the purposes of playing around, it's perfect. :)

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remi5.JPG)

And finally, a picture of Remi hooked up.  Notice the working and very not-fried LED there.  Thanks to this place, I was able to stop my murderous LED killing rampage and put one on there in a way to keep it safe :)

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remi6.JPG)

For those of you who want a small, but unfortunately hi-rez video, you can get it here (http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remirun.avi).  It's about 24 megs, and not very long at all.

So that's him.  My first robot.  My girlfriend helped me out with some of the things, like in making a makeshift battery clip which works like a charm (until we put the caster on to replace the wooden dowel, as now one of the screws is in the battery area).  It seems as though she's interested in helping me out with this stuff, which is great.  One more thing that we can do together :)

Woot! :)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: trigger on March 11, 2007, 04:46:15 PM
Contrats!  But the links are all broken for some reason.  ???
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: JesseWelling on March 11, 2007, 05:06:14 PM
same here.....
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Somchaya on March 11, 2007, 05:31:02 PM
Oh.. instead of http://robots.rowldwidesam.net/remi/remi1.JPG it's http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/remi1.JPG and the same for the other links =)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on March 11, 2007, 05:39:29 PM
DUH!

I was wondering why none of the image links were showing anything, so I just made them URLs.  I guess I was too tired to check the URL properly. :)


All fixed now.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: ed1380 on March 11, 2007, 06:48:40 PM
Congrats.
i'm hoping to make make my first robot soon too.
is it posible to take a picture of inside the controler?
You're lucky finding a GF who likes stuff like this.
The link to the video doesn't work.

Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: trigger on March 11, 2007, 06:48:50 PM
I like the chassis. It's pretty creative.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on March 12, 2007, 05:42:59 AM
Ugh, I can't believe I messed up all my links :D  Ok, the video should work now.

As for the controller, sure.  I'll try to do that tonight.  I didn't do it at first because, well, I did a poor job on it, but I will do it anyway. :)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on March 12, 2007, 08:54:10 PM
Ok, here they are.  The first is a basic view of the controller.  It's very simple, as you can see.  It's just two DPDT auto-center switches to control the left and right sides, an RJ45 jack, an LED and a LED-saving resistor :)

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/controller1.JPG)

This next one just shows from the other side, where the RJ45 jack is.

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/controller2.JPG)

And finally my wiring.  I'm not happy with it at all, but it works.  And don't try to use the wire colours as instructions.  In my trial and error, they moved around a lot, and don't really represent what they are :)

(http://robots.worldwidesam.net/remi/controller3.JPG)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: ed1380 on March 13, 2007, 05:44:54 AM
so the power from the batteries goes through the cat5 cable to the controller where the switches controll it, and from there to the motors
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on March 13, 2007, 05:53:07 AM
Yup.  Not terribly efficient, I'm sure, as not only is it going such a long way, but the batteries weigh down Remi too.  Unfortunately, there just wasn't any room in the controller for them.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: ed1380 on March 13, 2007, 03:17:20 PM
I thought it was an awesome idea
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on March 13, 2007, 05:19:25 PM
Well it certainly worked out for what I had available :)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 05, 2007, 09:13:45 AM
Soon im posting pictures of my first robot on web, all tho its not wireless.:(
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: ed1380 on April 05, 2007, 12:56:31 PM
Soon im posting pictures of my first robot on web, all tho its not wireless.:(
The reason I gave you the link to this arcticle is so that you can look at the way Sam did it, and maybe ask him
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 05, 2007, 01:46:16 PM
allright..;)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 05, 2007, 03:00:36 PM
There's nothing wrong with it not being wireless.  Just remember, there's always room in version 2 :)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 06, 2007, 03:13:23 AM
1 Question: The card u have plugged the battery and reciever to does it mather where u plug the wires or can u plug them wherever on the card as long as they fit?
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 06, 2007, 08:25:04 AM
Anywhere you like.  I put the card together myself, so if you need it to fit differently, then you can put it together any way you like.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 06, 2007, 11:15:44 AM
But om not really following here, in the robot controller wired or wireless? couse in one of the photos its wired and in another its wireless..! And is the card a normal electronic card used in many things like example robots but with not all the wires all over?
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 06, 2007, 11:34:13 AM
The controller must be connected to the robot in order for it to work.  It is connected via a cat5 cable.  The only reason why it wasn't connected in the first one is because there is no on/off switch, and I didn't want to drain the batteries while I was taking pictures :)

The card is just a regular breadboard that you can get from radio shack.  I made all of the connections myself.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 06, 2007, 02:57:17 PM
Ahh so im not the only robotic here not making wireless robots..:P But the green thing who holds the wheel and the rotating pin together is that like gum looking/likely stuff? and its easy to shape? I have something looking like that but when i tryed to put it on the pin and then put on the wheel the rotating pin shaped the "Gum" if i can call it that. And in a while it the "Gum" was so thin the wheel slipped right off it. How do u make it so hard it hold the wheel on long? I have glued it on and now its stuck (Thats positive tho...:P)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 06, 2007, 03:03:35 PM
The stuff I used is a modelling clay from Games Workshop.  It comes in two strips, one yellow and one blue.  You squish them together like puddy, and they turn green.  At that point, if left for an evening, the green stuff turns pretty hard.  It's not totally solid, as you can still dent it and such, but it's hard enough to keep the wheels on.

Glue is often better, though.  If you your motor and wheels are a snug enough fit, you'll get better results with the glue every time.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Hal9000 on April 07, 2007, 04:25:36 AM
Ahh so im not the only robotic here not making wireless robots..:P But the green thing who holds the wheel and the rotating pin together is that like gum looking/likely stuff? and its easy to shape? I have something looking like that but when i tryed to put it on the pin and then put on the wheel the rotating pin shaped the "Gum" if i can call it that. And in a while it the "Gum" was so thin the wheel slipped right off it. How do u make it so hard it hold the wheel on long? I have glued it on and now its stuck (Thats positive tho...:P)


No no, the robot is always wired.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 07, 2007, 08:34:37 AM
I think between the control and the robot reciever. But if that's what u had in mind to i gess im not sucha noob here anyway..:P
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Hal9000 on April 07, 2007, 11:20:13 AM
I dont think there is such a noob thing with robotics. It doesnt really matter, as long as your making robots.

People are good at different things etc etc.

Very possibly, robotics is the new graffiti........who knows?
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 07, 2007, 11:25:59 AM
Yeah but when i got here i dident really feel like home if u know what i mean? Everybody sounded so pro when they postet notes!
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Hal9000 on April 07, 2007, 11:54:42 AM
There's quite a mix, which is good......................unless people ask stuff like what is the difefrence between a servo and a motor, without typing it in google first.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: gamefreak on April 08, 2007, 11:11:33 AM
is this technically a robot? a robot has the ability to sense its enviroment and react with it, your creation seems to be more like a remote control car

according to wikipedia, a robot must have these:
Can sense its environment.
Can manipulate things in its environment.
Has some degree of intelligence, or ability to make choices based on the environment, or automatic control / preprogrammed sequence.
Is programmable.
Can move with one or more axes of rotation or translation.
Can make dexterous coordinated movements.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 08, 2007, 12:31:58 PM
There are really two camps for defining what a robot is.

On the one hand, there is the camp that believes that a robot is something that has at least some autonomy, and reacts to the environment as you say.

On the other, there is the camp that has a broader definition of what a robot is to include things like Remi.  This is why you get shows like "Robot Wars", "Battle Bots", etc.  Even Grant Imahara from Mythbusters calls his remote controled monster a robot.

The former is the more technical (and technically accurate) definition, whereas the latter is the more accepted definition.  It's sort of like how everyone pronounces Gigabyte with a hard G, when in actuality it's a soft G.  Though it may be technically wrong, it is the accepted pronunciation of the word.

As for Wikipedia, I've never seen it to have much credibility due to how it operates.  I prefer dictionary definitions, even though they sometimes differ too.

That said, the American Heritage Dictionary defines robot as the following:

Quote
   1. A mechanical device that sometimes resembles a human and is capable of performing a variety of often complex human tasks on command or by being programmed in advance.
   2. A machine or device that operates automatically or by remote control.
   3. A person who works mechanically without original thought, especially one who responds automatically to the commands of others.

#2 is the applicable definition here.  This robot, like any robot you'd see in those popular robot battle TV shows, is a robot by that definition.


Personally, it's barely a robot to me, but it's close enough that it's easier to call it a robot than to explain it as something else.  To fuss over wether it is or not seems rather pedantic to me.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: gamefreak on April 09, 2007, 06:13:18 PM
lol, i know, but in my definition its not a robot unless it has some degree of "thinking" power, also in battlebots and those other shows they have radio receivers, which have brains in them to decode the radio signal and blah blah blah.

Now tecnically you made a "remote" controlled car, still cool, but not quite a robot because it cant think or interact with the environment when something happens(and dont say when you push the switch it moves, that doesnt count :P)

Also your "robot" has no ICs at all, which as far as i can tell, which means it has no brain, and no brain=no robot
beware the logic of the monkey, for it shall be your downfall :P


now going off the pictures you posted, the cable that connects the switches to the "robot" is just a wire, so technically all you have is a circuit, no robot :D


now none of this is supposed to rain on your parade and i congratulate you on your first mechatronic creation, its still not a robot, But hey im planning on posting a non-robot(but it has a brain :P) creation of mine here shortly.

they should make a show that actually pits "real" robots against each other without human interaction, like the robocup, maybe make some sort of AiBo soccer show :P
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 09, 2007, 08:11:52 PM
Encoding and decoding something is not intelligence.  It is simply an algorithm.  It is an automatic process that happens when a user provides an input, so that the input may be sent to the receiver.  What I built is no different than the battlebots, and so by common definition it is a robot.  You may agree, or disagree, but ultimately it doesn't matter.  People can discuss it up and down, from here until forever.  The fact remains, however, that many dictionaries, and many more people consider what I made to be a robot.

What I would like to point out, however, is that by pushing your personal definition of a robot you are, in fact, discouraging those of us who are just starting out.  You have to start somewhere, and a project like this is a very good one.  To say it isn't a robot is akin to telling the person that what they have done is unworthy of recognition in this community.  If that is all that the person is aspiring to, then I would agree with you.  If, however, they use it as a stepping stone to greater ends, then why split hairs?  Why focus on the negative, instead of encouraging them to take on such a project to get familiar with the skills that they will eventually apply to a fully autonomous robot?

In short, what does saying "that's not a robot" accomplish for anyone?  Though I don't mean to be presumptuous concerning your motives, I must honestly say that the only thing I can think of that this discussion may accomplish is for someone to feel superior to someone else.

Though I will certainly agree that more shows with autonomous robotic competitions would be very cool.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: gamefreak on April 10, 2007, 05:27:31 AM
lol, i got yellled at, yes you are right, it is a good stepppng stone, and the prpject im planning on posting is a door :P

i think the only motive i have is that it went against my definition, and i'm a very argumentative person
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 10, 2007, 05:39:48 AM
the prpject im planning on posting is a door

That door better at least be remote controlled! ;)

Quote
i think the only motive i have is that it went against my definition, and i'm a very argumentative person

As am I, but I learned long ago that some things just aren't worth arguing, as they benefit no one in the end.  Well, that's not true...  I didn't learn it LONG ago ;)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Hal9000 on April 10, 2007, 06:06:35 AM
No, this thing is a robot.

A car crushing robot is a robot. But it has a human behind it.

Thus Sam's robot is a robot. Lots of people talk about robots.........Sam builds them......encounters a few problems along the way............but has actually made one.
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: sotu on April 10, 2007, 01:08:27 PM
A remote controlled car sure is an robot. Not many robots think, even the big robots used to make other robots, cars or whatever has been "Told" to say it like that, what to do. No robot know what to do unless u make it know it..!:P
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Somchaya on April 10, 2007, 02:29:08 PM
A remote controlled car sure is an robot. Not many robots think, even the big robots used to make other robots, cars or whatever has been "Told" to say it like that, what to do. No robot know what to do unless u make it know it..!:P

[philosophical rant]
This is actually pretty true. How would we draw the line between "smart" robots and robots that are merely following code? Sure, when robots achieve sentience and kill all of us, that's probly pretty smart, but before then, it's very possible to argue that there is little difference between a robot following code that you write and run on a microcontroller, vs "commands" that you give it via a remote control.
[/philosophical rant]

So, I think that what Sam did is considered a robot. The definition of a robot itself is pretty vague and no one knows what the real definition of robots are, so it's really up to an individual to decide where to draw a line between robots and simple machines.

And regardless of whether it's a real robot or not, it's definitely a great way to indulge in robotics and learn a lot of stuff from!
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: JonHylands on April 10, 2007, 02:53:40 PM
I prefer to think of autonomous robots as a separate subclass of robot.

Autonomy has nothing to do with whether or not the robot thinks. The important part is where decisions are made with respect to sensor input. If the decisions are made in software, then the robot is autonomous. If the decisions are made by a person, the robot is remotely controlled.

Of course, some robots fall into both categories - they can make certain decisions autonomously, and other decisions require the input of a human operator. The Mars rovers are good examples of that kind of hybrid.

- Jon
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: dunk on April 10, 2007, 04:55:15 PM
i'm with Jon here.
i like to think anything i would make and call "robot" is autonomous in some way.

unfortunately my most successful bot was basically a remote controlled vehicle with a webcam attached, controlled via a web page on my work's intranet.
i went to great pains to describe it as a "telebot". ie, a teleoperated vehicle.
but everyone who logged in to drive around the office thought of it as a robot.
"hey dunk, love the robot!" emails came flooding in.
flattery of course is a great dissolver of moral principals.
so the name "robot" stuck.
the name "telebot" sucked any way.
next time i'll have to think of something more catchy. maybe "superfunhappybotwithfreekinlasers".

the moral of my story: it's only a name. you can use it however you want. i like to use it to describe autonomous devices but i can still work out what you are talking about if you use it to describe your RC truck with a spiny saw glued to the front.
a lot of the challenges faced will be the same whatever we build.
either way, it will be far more robot like if you find an excuse to put some lasers on there....

dunk.
(with frikin lasers...)
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: gamefreak on April 10, 2007, 08:23:57 PM
[rant]
there is no code in remi

lol, my definition of a robot is something that can run for a period of time without human interaction, car bots go off a code, yes i know they have to be monitored by a technician, but they arent ever physically run by a person :P
[end rant]


Still this is a good starting point to learn the basics
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 11, 2007, 05:55:04 AM
[rant]
Did you bother to read the fact that at least one dictionary completely disagrees with you?  How about the fact that your negative attitude helps no one and produces nothing but bad blood?

Seriously, dude, your crusade is really starting to get on my nerves.  I really don't care what YOUR definition is.  The definition from at least one dictionary, along with many more people than you, is that it is a robot.  Feel free to be self-righteous all you want, but I don't think this is the place for it.
[/rant]
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: Sam_Charette on April 11, 2007, 06:37:10 AM
As an addendum, code is irrelevent.  My very first robot, waaaaaaaaay back in grade six, was a photovore.  There was no code, and no processor in it, but it could still follow light on it's own.  It was autonomous, and it was less complex than Remi.

Or how about Stiquito, the little robot that uses muscle wire to walk.  It's autonomous, but has no code.

What about all of the little insect things that people make that just move?  No code, but autonomous.

How about those solar powerd drag racers that you often see competitions for at robot events?  No real brains at all.  They're autonomous, though.

Autonomy doesn't require code, and code certainly does not grant autonomy (or else your word processor would write your essays for you).

Get your definitions straight before coming here and declaring how much better it is from the rest of the world's :P
Title: Re: Meet Remi
Post by: gamefreak on April 11, 2007, 10:48:46 AM
Im not saying anything is better, it is a great little robot, infact i havent even started on my first non-kit robot(a job for the summer) and im failry clueless when it comes to robots, i just thought that robots requires little interaction, i see that i was wrong and im sorry for my rant