Society of Robots - Robot Forum

General Misc => Misc => Topic started by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 07:05:55 AM

Title: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 07:05:55 AM
can a soldering iron (or gun in my case) be too hot? because when i used to randomly unsolder things, like old TV remotes, my old flytech dragonfly; some of the components burned out and broke, I've already bought new solder (22 gauge) to make sure i dont brake the components but will i need a new soldering iron/gun??

Thanx

Joe

EDIT: i Have an old Weller Universal soldering gun of some kind.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: airman00 on January 18, 2009, 07:17:56 AM
too hot is relative. Some components can only handle a small amount of heat, anything higher and they will burn out. Other components can handle a lot of heat.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 07:26:06 AM
Thanks for the reply, what do you suggest i do?
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: HDL_CinC_Dragon on January 18, 2009, 08:17:31 AM
Try your hardest to solder as far away from the component as possible and try to make sure your iron isnt on it any longer than absolutely necessary. There are also little heat sink clips you can buy such as one from RadioShack for 2 bucks.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: want2learn on January 18, 2009, 11:23:25 AM
The soldering Gun you're using is a pistol grip type isn't it ;)

These are far too hot for about 60-80% of electronic components.

You need to buy an iron, those pistol grip soldering guns are meant  for heavy duty soldering. Heavy gauge wires and some chassis mount connectors require this type of gun as they act as heatsinks and draw heat quickly away from the connection whereas pcb work doesn't.

If you have the money (£20 is ok) buy yourself a 18/24 watt soldering iron with a very fine tip, almost like a pencil or needle.
While you're at it buy a cheap stand with a small sponge holder.

If I'm wrong then sorry but your technique needs a lot of work
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 11:25:00 AM

yes it is a pistol type grip, ill see if i can buy a new iron, but thanks for the heat clip suggestion anyway HDL_CinC_Dragon =D
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 11:47:16 AM
Does anyone know were i can get a decent soldering iron (one that dosn't fry components) in the UK?
I can spend up to like £30 although cheaper is better, (i still want 1 that lasts a while though)

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 18, 2009, 11:50:17 AM
maplins ones are crap, they last about a day. thats the lesson i learnt.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 12:23:14 PM
is this soldering iron ok?

http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Soldering-Irons/High-efficiency-25W-soldering-iron-with-fitted-mains-plug/60704/kw/85-0660 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Soldering-Irons/High-efficiency-25W-soldering-iron-with-fitted-mains-plug/60704/kw/85-0660)


Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Gertlex on January 18, 2009, 12:30:12 PM
is this soldering iron ok?

http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Soldering-Irons/High-efficiency-25W-soldering-iron-with-fitted-mains-plug/60704/kw/85-0660 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Soldering-Irons/High-efficiency-25W-soldering-iron-with-fitted-mains-plug/60704/kw/85-0660)


Thanks

Joe

That looks like it'd work.  I couldn't find what temperature it operates at, though... (but I'd say 99% chance it's more than enough).

But ya... find the temperature out.  I got a new soldering iron for xmas... 900ºF.  I haven't used it yet.... because as far as I understand, that's a very high temperature for soldering.  I should have bought the new soldering iron myself x_x.

Also, I'd go for one that comes with a stand... just out of preference.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 18, 2009, 12:33:37 PM
ok, ill take you up on the fact it will work =D, im buying it now


Thanks


Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: want2learn on January 19, 2009, 12:35:48 AM
The Iron will be fine, remember to order the stand at the same time though.

Not a lot of soldering irons for sale in the U.K. actually show operating temperature. 25W is ok for through hole component work.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 19, 2009, 12:40:20 PM
would this stand fit it?


http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Iron-Stands/Soldering-iron-stands-and-sponges/30437 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Fasteners-Production-Equipment/Soldering-Equipment/Iron-Stands/Soldering-iron-stands-and-sponges/30437)

If not can you find me one that would on Rapidonline.com?

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 19, 2009, 01:14:11 PM
no that stand would not fit because that stand is for weller soldering irons, not xytronic soldering irons.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 19, 2009, 01:15:09 PM
can u find me one on Rapidonline that will fit??

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: paulstreats on January 19, 2009, 01:15:27 PM
Not sure how much you want to spend, but i noticed this a few months ago:

http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d00675/soldering-station-uk-plug/dp/149836449 (http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d00675/soldering-station-uk-plug/dp/149836449)

Its a temperature controlled "soldering station" for about £30.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 19, 2009, 01:30:31 PM
Ive found out the stand i was going to buy wouldnt fit, so im going to twist an old coathanger into a shape and get a small spounge for the cleaning spounge, Many thanks to Frodo for the Idea.

Thank you all for your greatly needed help.  ;D


Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Webbot on January 19, 2009, 02:10:13 PM
Sorry - but IMHO some folk are trying to make this seem more complex than it is.

Soldering irons don't fry anything - it's how you use them. I've got several Weller, and Antex, irons - all cheap - which have lasted me for years (the Weller since 1970s). None have soldering stations - they are just 'hot metal'. OK - I don't spend ages de-soldering things and, if I do, I  use a solder braid. But so far, and touch wood, I haven't managed to fry anything. But at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

@Frodo -
Quote
maplins ones are crap, they last about a day. thats the lesson i learned.
From previous off line chats you said these were like 'own brand' and cost about £3 (say $5) each. £3 is too good to be true. But they sell Antex irons as well - and, as already said, they do the job for me. Not brilliant - but completely functional for the average person like me.

@Joesavage1 - a stand is just somewhere to plonk something hot. So most stands are just a coiled wire - to dissipate heat. So Frodos 'bent coathanger' will work. But most stands will work as the diameter of irons are pretty similar. Again - my 'one and only' iron stand is from the 1970s - no idea WHAT iron make it was intended for but works with all of the irons Ive got.

Temperature - guns etc. I believe guns are somewhat 'high temperature shotguns'. Use your soldering iron + braid.

There's no way I'm going to spend a fortune on a sophisticated iron. So even if I do fry a few AtMegas (haven't done it yet) then its a fraction of the cost of a professional iron.

Lets be pragmatic. I'd rather spend the money I save on electronics.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 19, 2009, 02:18:03 PM
@ Webbot -
ye £3 is a good price and all i was able to afford at  the time but i intend on getting one now that might last longer than 1-2 days.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: want2learn on January 19, 2009, 02:36:25 PM
I wasn't trying to make this complicated at all. Those pistol grip soldering irons are not intended for PCB work, they are used in applications where heat draw is a problem e.g. heavy duty wiring some connectors, hell I even used one to solder the copper pipe in a homebrew solar water heater.
A beginner would find it most difficult to use one of these for PCB work, especially on a crowded board.

If you weren't referring to me then you have my sincerest apologies, I've had a terrible day.

BTW My first soldering iron was the cheapest that you could get (1.50ish). It lasted more than 4 years before I burned it out. As long as you turn them off when you wont be using them they'll definitely give you your money's worth
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 20, 2009, 12:57:25 AM
Thanks for all your advice everyone,

As i have said THANKS A BILLION, im going to go with the coathanger =D, oh and while im here im just going to take this off subject, are these ok for my $50 they were not the UK code on paula's list cause they were out of stock:
its number 22-0185 on

http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/DIL-Sockets/Low-profile-DIL-IC-sockets/63772/kw/22-0175 (http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Connectors/Connectors-Multipole/DIL-Sockets/Low-profile-DIL-IC-sockets/63772/kw/22-0175)

Thanks, and sorry for this unrelated question, just though i may aswell make use of this thread. =D

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Webbot on January 20, 2009, 05:51:42 AM
No - you can't use that one because it is 0.6 inches wide rather than 0.3 inches wide.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 20, 2009, 01:14:11 PM
is there a way that i can use this in it, as ive already ordered?   :'(
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 20, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
you could solder single strand wire onto the pins of the microcontroller then shove the wires into the corresponding bits in the socket but its fiddly.   :-\
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: cosminprund on January 21, 2009, 06:25:24 AM
is there a way that i can use this in it, as ive already ordered?   :'(

Cut off the plastic tabs in the middle so the sides can get closer to each other. Or just go to an local shop and get a new one that's the correct size and keep this one for later.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 21, 2009, 11:21:33 AM
can you draw me a diagram, which plastic tabs?
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 21, 2009, 11:31:34 AM
the tabs in the middle of the socket that join the two sides together.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 24, 2009, 10:32:12 AM
I rung them up, and ordered a pack of 15 as they were the only ones they had in stock =D

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 27, 2009, 11:55:51 AM
Haha, we had electronics today at school and it turns out that the school use Rapid as an electronics company they get there stuff from; this whole time ive been using the soldering iron at school that im getting at home! turns out they have a education site too; http://www.rapidonline.com/Educational-Products (http://www.rapidonline.com/Educational-Products) , Hope this link comes in use to someone; =D

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 27, 2009, 12:43:05 PM
 :D our school also uses Rapid Online for technology stuff and science! i've even thought about asking them to put stuff on the mailing list for me and i'd pay them how much it costs but i've never got round to it lol. good luck with your robot, Joe.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 29, 2009, 10:05:38 AM
OhNo! My soldering iron came yesterday and it works well and is fairly good, but after i tested if it could melt the solder ive got after i turned it off i expected a quick cooldown time but it took longer than i expected and i accidently melted some plastic on the side on the tip, fairly high up. I dont know what to do!? Also should i wipe before i stop using, some people say you should wipe and then melt some solder to flux it and stop for oxidising!?!

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Trumpkin on January 29, 2009, 10:10:35 AM
Quote
some people say you should wipe and then melt some solder to flux it and stop for oxidising!?!
That's what I like to do. If you don't your tip will get nasty really fast.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: HDL_CinC_Dragon on January 29, 2009, 02:57:24 PM
I probably wouldnt worry about it too much. Especially if its only on the shaft and not the actual pointed solder tip. Just peel it off when the iron cools down. Always assume long cool down times. I actually wrap mine in an aluminum heatsink I have from an old motherboard to help it cool down faster and protect anything from touching the hot iron :)

Quote
If you don't your tip will get nasty really fast.
*whistles while walking away slowly*
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 30, 2009, 01:11:56 AM
I probably wouldnt worry about it too much. Especially if its only on the shaft and not the actual pointed solder tip.

Yer its quite far up on the iron, its not right on the tip, so i guess it should be fine, i just got sorta worried as i just got it yesterday.
BTW all the $50 parts are so small! they look so big on the picture on the site lol.


Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 30, 2009, 10:13:15 AM
Quote
some people say you should wipe and then melt some solder to flux it and stop for oxidising!?!
That's what I like to do. If you don't your tip will get nasty really fast.


i never did that with my soldering iron and about a day later, my soldering iron tip had gone black and rusty. i thought it was broken but now i know that its oxidising.  :D
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on January 31, 2009, 05:27:04 AM
now, the bit that you cant melt solder on is turning brown/black rusty colour, and if I burn too much on the tip the solder on that bit goes browny too. can some1 give me a standard procedure for before and after use; for now i have a box which is/almost is airtight, so ill keep it in their for the time being ;

Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: frodo on January 31, 2009, 05:42:48 AM
just cover the tip in solder until it has a thin layer of silvery stuff (solder) but don't leave a huge blob of solder on the tip.
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: HDL_CinC_Dragon on January 31, 2009, 01:13:11 PM
Here joe, have a look at this:
http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=2944.0
Thats one soldering tutorial/information thingy thats really good. There was also another amazing soldering tutorial on here that someone found but I couldnt find it again lol
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Joesavage1 on February 01, 2009, 03:07:13 AM
ok, i  think the solder went brown sometimes cause i put too much on, but i still donno about the upper but?! is it because its metal but cant burn solder there so is inevitably oxidising?


Thanks

Joe
Title: Re: Soldering Question
Post by: Admin on February 09, 2009, 10:32:58 PM
If your soldering iron is too hot, solder won't stick onto the iron. For example, lead-less solder won't stay on my iron if I go above ~480C.

Chips also have rated soldering temperatures (see the part datasheet).