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Offline abh34Topic starter

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battle bots idea
« on: January 21, 2010, 08:42:19 AM »
i have beeen watching loads of videos of battle bots and i want some advice on some thng

would it be possible to make a shock absorption armour
basically the main idea is a triple layer armour with 2 layers of metal coat(aluminium preferably coz it is light though very expensive) with a layer of foam or sponge in between

is there some reliable way to join them so that it doesnt fall apart in battle coz then it can take a lot of hits
shock absorption by the foam will lessen the impact of attack (not sure how it will work with disc type weapons though)
 i just wanted to know is it possible
also an alternative form is to have metalsprings instead of foam to weld 2 layers of aluminium

they can be joined easily but shock absorption MAY be less........not sure.........

Offline Soeren

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 10:05:44 AM »
Hi,

I think you'll find a spike going through it either 10cm or 9.8cm won't matter that much, it's still leaving a gaping hole.

Titanium plates will be much better than aluminum (which is very soft compared) with foam under.
Best would be some kind of scaling made out of wolfram (a.k.a. tungsten, which is the hardest, but also most brittle, metal we have) which could then have foam under to keep them from splintering.
Carbon fiber would be quite OK as well.

If you're serious in combat robotics, forget aluminum for cover.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline little-c

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 11:43:35 AM »
err, kinda right idea, wrong method of implementing.

tungsten isn't that reliable as an armour plate. what with the shattering. best bet is depleated uranium... though that deosnt go down well with the health and saftey crowd. something about nuclear waste?  ???


option one steel:ceramic tile:steel:high density rubber backing.
ceramic shatters under impact absorbing energy(small tiles take less overall damage) steel gives strength to the mix, preventing the wepon just smashing through, and rubber stops stuff flying around the inside of the robot.

tungsten could replace steel, but its heavier. add some kevlar if you can get it, and its pretty bulletproof. and probably grenade proof aswell.

pros, pretty heavy duty, adapted version of this using nuclear waste is stuck on tanks. impact resistant, armour is unlikely to fly around the inside of the robot.

cons, heavy, if made too light, just gets dented and rips off mountings. big spike thing can stick in it(heavy becomes a pro then). possibly costly. ceramic is a one hit wonder. need lots of small plates, pray lighting doesn't strike the same place twice.
options of using highdensity rubber and metal, to do the same thing.

Offline little-c

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 11:58:54 AM »
post went weird.

option two,

outer layer of metal, sloped to make strikes bounce off(important, make strikes glance off, and you take less damage) then layers of (optional which you use, and in what order, make small sections and experiment) kevlar, carbon fiber, high density rubber, glass fiber, (high density plastic or perspex et al), carboard soaked in epoxy glue, cross layered newspaper soaked in epoxy...

idea is to make layers of diffrent materials, from rock hard brittle stuff, to spongie stuff that tangles the wepon up.

one made from cardboard, rubber and perspex is nearly(wouldn't garentee it, but if I had to make homebrew body armour, Id go for that) bullet proof if made from 2mm layers, 12mm deep.

pros, can be light and work well. if you get the right mix, and a good enough outter cover to deflect strikes, you'll laugh anything off.

cons, could be heavy, or patheticaly weak if you get it wrong. delaminating from strikes, buckling and tearing off mountings. disks may tear the layers appart.

cons can be designed out, but that take s effort

Offline Soeren

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 09:47:56 PM »
Hi,

err, kinda right idea, wrong method of implementing.

tungsten isn't that reliable as an armour plate. what with the shattering.
Did you perhaps miss the word "scaling"? (which is what keeps it from shattering)


option one steel:ceramic tile:steel:high density rubber backing.
[...]
tungsten could replace steel, but its heavier.
Hey, you really gotta make up your mind!

In fact, it would only work as scales (small pieces, like in a brigadine), not as whole plates as you seem to suggest.
The idea of using scales covering a soft/spongy material is, that a spike weapon will hit the scale and it's inertia will be spread, so instead of a point less than 1mm^2, it would be eg. 100mm^2 to 500mm^2, thereby softening the blow to the underlying "armor".

The late medieval (X-bow bolts (and some long bow arrows) had heads that were diamond shaped to be able to go through plate armor that couldn't be breached by the soft round bullet from a pistol and scales mounted the right way on a compliant backing will make the point of the spike into a soft bullit (in piercing power).


[...] add some kevlar if you can get it, and its pretty bulletproof. and probably grenade proof aswell.
Kevlar itself is not bulletproof. but used correctly (and with many layers), it can be made bulletproof.
Grenade proof?... How many layers do you think he can afford if he thinks aluminum is expensive? ;)
Kevlar might be only a fifth the weigth of steel for the equivalent strength, but it would still be heavier than the rest of the "robot", which is not really a robot, but a specialized (and glorified) R/C-car.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline little-c

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 08:20:50 AM »
meh, maybe I should reference stuff better..... and kinda make it clear what Im talking about. brain runs off in random directions. I have been known to change topics in the middle of sentences.

and stop thinking about inverting the process of blowing stuff up. you would be amazed what you can do to prevent stuff from been blown up easily. course, bigger bomb, bigger bang, thicker armour plate. eventuly it becomes an imoblie bunker and you can just ignore it and wander around out of range.

as for the steel ceramic tile, steel, high density rubber been grenade proof... its pretty damn good at stopping grenade blasts. pretty trashed, but thick enough rubber backing will stop most of the shrapnail, very little energy left in what might get through. the armour would be shreaded, but it works. once.

tungsten refernce was for steel, ceramic tile, tungsten, high density rubber. which kinda is modern tank armour, minus the DU and other fancy high tech stuff. idea been to stop the armour bending, and cause it to crush under impact, absorbing energy. blasts are quite easy to deal with, sharp impacts somewhat harder. the idea is to have the armour at sharp angles, causing the blow to shear off to one side, as opposed to actuly stopping an impact going through the armour. also basic geometry comes into play. take a block, angle it. you now have a thicker armour plate.

which is as far as Im going to get without wandering off into random ideas.

Offline abh34Topic starter

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 12:22:45 PM »
srry for the dumb question but could u explain wad do u mean by scaling

Offline little-c

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 01:32:35 PM »
overlapping plates, kinda like fish scales.


Offline Ryltar

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 05:36:04 PM »
would it be possible to make a shock absorption armour basically the main idea is a triple layer armour with 2 layers of metal coat(aluminium preferably coz it is light though very expensive) with a layer of foam or sponge in between

I did armor similar to this in high school. We had two AL plates with a honeycomb structure in between. It worked great for protection against impacts (hammers, flippers, etc), but against shearing force (blade attacks) it became confetti. Just sharing what happened to me :)

Offline waltr

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 09:10:55 PM »
For a material that should be more resistant the cutting and puncturing I think of thin spring steel sheet. McMaster-Carr has it in several thicknesses.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#spring-steel-shim-stock/=5hre4w

Offline Soeren

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2010, 09:38:21 PM »
Hi,

For a material that should be more resistant the cutting and puncturing I think of thin spring steel sheet.
Have you got any idea of the force of a "pick-axe" on the large battle bots (well, even on the smaller ones)?
Some of them goes through titanium plates like a knife goes through varm butter - There's a reason for the disabling knife switch.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline Team Orr

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 04:43:30 AM »
hey

the antweight guys over here use spring steel a lot, and i honestly cant praise it anough :P althought titainium is probably better  ;D

what weight class are you going for? anything more than beetleweights and i would stick to bolting armor to the frame, and why not have some shock proofing under that? foam works a treat as does loft insulation :)

jack
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Offline Hertz32

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2010, 03:23:13 PM »
wot glass wool!!  :o

Offline MangoBot

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Re: battle bots idea
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 09:13:00 PM »
i had a idea of trampoline armor where it could be thin rubber with springs all around. When it with things like a sledgehammer if the springs stayed intact it would be completely fine, its only weakness would be peircing weapons, and Squares of metal(1" x 1'') Glued all over like a chess board could stop it from being pierced, the spike would hit a square and the whole sheet would absorb the shock. Unlike a whole sheet of aluminum it may not be hurt by hammers. If you want to know more look up scaled bullet proof vests as that is where I got my idea from

 


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