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Author Topic: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II  (Read 8000 times)

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Offline Popcorn97Topic starter

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Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« on: March 02, 2010, 03:38:54 AM »
Hi everyone,
i just got a Axon II yesterday and found out the bootloader doesnt work on 64 bit windows 7 OS. im new to robotics (well i've used the Lego NXT for a few years but i dont think that really counts) and im not really sure what else i can use/do. I've tried both the GUI and cmd versions of the FBOOT17 with both the same problem.
i'd really appreciate some help,
Steph

Offline Admin

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2010, 06:20:54 AM »
Personally, I'd upgrade back to XP 32-bit version :P

Or at least to 32 bit Windows 7. . . there isn't any reason to have more than 32 bit unless you feel 4GB of RAM isn't enough for your PC . . . and quite a lot of software out there isn't 64-bit compatible . . .

That said, no bootloader user has found a 64-bit workaround to my knowledge (someone please chime in if you have).

Two other solutions: use a virtual machine with 32-bit, or use a hardware programmer.

The cheapest full-featured programmer I know of:
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1300
(I haven't used it myself, but other SoR members recommended it)

Offline HDA

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2010, 07:54:47 AM »
I 'am nearly the same problem with XP, because it's seems that the AXOONII bootloader is a 16 bits version ! (an old 16 bits library seems to be used in this code)
The error message in the specific windows proposes "OK" or "Cancel", if you click on "Cancel"
the bootloader is OK !

Offline dunk

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2010, 12:40:10 PM »
hey Admin,
do you have the source code for the windows bootloader program?
i'm sure if you ask someone on the forum can build a 64bit windows version if you do.
(not me. i got no windows.)


dunk.

Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 05:01:36 PM »
Personally, I'd upgrade back to XP 32-bit version :P

Or at least to 32 bit Windows 7. . . there isn't any reason to have more than 32 bit unless you feel 4GB of RAM isn't enough for your PC . . . and quite a lot of software out there isn't 64-bit compatible . . .

That said, no bootloader user has found a 64-bit workaround to my knowledge (someone please chime in if you have).

Two other solutions: use a virtual machine with 32-bit, or use a hardware programmer.

The cheapest full-featured programmer I know of:
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1300
(I haven't used it myself, but other SoR members recommended it)



I recommend that programmer, i use it on Win7 64 bit with no problems at all, and it's way faster(and easier) to use than the Fboot program, as it's a single mouse click in Win AVR to program. You also don't have to fight Hyperterminal ever time you want to flash the uC.

And 64bit computers are also faster then ones in 32bit mode, it's not just about RAM :-P
The only software not compatible is software that is 16 bit or less. The world has been 32bit for over a decade, so it's time for developers to play catch-up; we shouldn't hold back computer advances forever just because a few developers refuse to re-compile.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 05:05:56 PM by madsci1016 »

Offline Admin

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2010, 09:09:48 PM »
hey Admin,
do you have the source code for the windows bootloader program?
i'm sure if you ask someone on the forum can build a 64bit windows version if you do.
(not me. i got no windows.)

http://www.societyofrobots.com/bootloader_50_robot.shtml
 ;D

(fyi, the tutorial only explains how to use the v1.9, but the v2.1 is better and easy enough to figure out)

Offline KurtEck

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2010, 09:38:06 PM »
A side note to this.  I am running Windows 7 but in 32 bit mode.  I am currently using the GUI front end for the bootloader and it works great! 

I was using a programmer from Olimex, but with it about 1/3 of the time it did not find it and the bootloader appears to be a few times faster? 

Kurt

Offline Popcorn97Topic starter

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 01:09:11 AM »
Thanks guys,
i think im going to change to 32 OS - 64 bit compatibility is causing me all kinds of headaches.
cant wait to finally test out my axon :)

Offline kl22

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 03:31:15 PM »
Hey all! that are looking for 64bit BootLoader!

I'm currently working on a bootloader thats based on the FBoot (but fully remade). Initially the development started on C# but I have moved it to Java so that OS compatibility issues will be minimized.

The bootloader I'm making will support x64, x86, Windows 7, Vista, XP and i'm looking into Mac and Linux in the near future.

As state in my other post... the expected release date will be around May 1, 2010. Hopefully that's not too long of a wait.

Updates on the progress can be seen at: http://robotics.pixiq.ca/category/7-pixiqboot

Offline BANE

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2011, 01:15:21 PM »
sorry for digging this post up but I'm having the same problem.  It there a bootloader for windows 7 64bit yet?  I'd hate to keep switching between my two computers to load a program and its kind of stupid having to get a avr programmer when the axon II has a spiffy one built in...

thnx

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2011, 01:27:16 PM »

Offline hardmouse

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2011, 11:35:10 PM »


This is what I got on screen. Is this the same problems you guys have?

Sorry I am new to this too.

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Offline Ro-Bot-X

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2011, 06:17:27 AM »
Madsci told me that I should install XP in a virtual machine, using VMware. I did that and it works perfectly.
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Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2011, 07:33:16 AM »
Madsci told me that I should install XP in a virtual machine, using VMware. I did that and it works perfectly.


Yup, that's what I used to do too, before I broke down and bought a $20 programmer and avoided the whole issue all together.

Offline Webbot

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2011, 02:13:58 PM »
@Admin
Windows 64 bit is becoming more of a problem as its getting impossible to find a machine that comes with WinXP anymore. Newbs, and me to be frank!, may be rather put off by multiple boot and virtual machines etc. I'm thinking of getting a new laptop but am worried everything will stop working.

So I wonder if its worth centralising all these related posts into a central resource - apologies if already done! - ie if you are using WinXP then the following programmers do/dont work, plus other software like AVRStudio. Repeat for Windows Vista and Windows7. Then link to it from $50 tutorial etc. Am conscious that it means you are then advertising/advocating 3rd party products and may not want to go there. But it would help the newb and those of us who are worried that buying a new pc may be a waste of money if everything stops working.
Webbot Home: http://webbot.org.uk/
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Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2011, 05:04:12 PM »
The common point of failure here (and the only non compatible software) is FBOOT. FBOOT is an AVR bootloader and programmer written many years ago when the world was 16 bit. And from what I can tell, isn't being supported anymore. Someone with source would have to recompile for at least 32 bit for it to work with Win 7 64 bit.

Things like hardware programmers and AVRStudio continue to work just fine Webbot, so you can breath easy on that. I've been completely 64bit for over a year now. I just don't use FBOOT anymore.

My suggestion is to dump the old bootloader all together; and switch to say, the Arduino one. (GASP! Hear me out).

The largest driver being it's a very large community with good chances of continuing support and upgrades.

The bootloader itself is open source. And from what I understand (and I could be wrong), the Arduino IDE is just using AVRDude and a script to send the .hex to the AVR chip every time you hit load. I can see this being adapted for our use.

Heck, even a java based WebbotLib programmer GUI. That's what the Arduino IDE is written in, and does the same thing. We just have to modify the Arduino bootloader from the Atmega328 to the Atmega644P. Problem solved with better hope of future support.

Just my $.02

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2011, 05:19:33 PM »
We just have to modify the Arduino bootloader from the Atmega328 to the Atmega644P.
You mean ATmega640? :P

Any takers to get a new bootloader working for 64 bit? I myself prefer a programmer . . .

Offline Ro-Bot-X

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2011, 07:43:49 PM »
A while ago I have asked for help in the Arduino Forum about a bootloader for the ATmega640. Mark Sproul changed the necessary bits and pieces for the bootloader to work on UART1 instead of UART0 and on ATmega640. Here is a copy of the email I got from him:
Quote
Gabriel

This is the same bootloader that will be in the new Arduino board that will be released tomorrow at Maker fair in NYC
refer to http://www.arduino-avr.com/

you need BOOTRST enabled and 4K word (8k bytes) bootloader size enabled


it is stk500v2 so you need to add this to your boards.txt file

IMPORTANT NOTE: THESE FUSE BYTES ARE PROBABLY WRONG. DO NOT USE ARDUINO TO BURN THE BOOTLOADER WITHOUT VERIFYING WHAT THEY SHOULD BE

I will not be reading email tomorrow so if you have problems, I probably wont respond until Sunday night.

Mark


##############################################################
mega640.name=Axon (ATmega640)

mega640.upload.protocol=stk500v2
mega640.upload.maximum_size=28672
mega640.upload.speed=115200

mega640.bootloader.low_fuses=0xFF
mega640.bootloader.high_fuses=0xDA
mega640.bootloader.extended_fuses=0x05
mega640.bootloader.path=atmega
mega640.bootloader.file=stk500boot_v2_axonuart1.hex
mega640.bootloader.unlock_bits=0x3F
mega640.bootloader.lock_bits=0x0F

mega640.build.mcu=atmega640
mega640.build.f_cpu=16000000L
mega640.build.core=arduino


Now it did not work from Arduino IDE, but it might work if you use a command line. I do not have time to play with it and see how can be made to work, but perhaps someone want's to give it a try.

I attached the bootloader hex file, as this was the only thing Mark sent me with that email.

Edit: to be able to use the Axon in Arduino IDE, all core files have to be edited and anywhere you see:
Code: [Select]
#if defined(__AVR_ATmega1280__) || defined(__AVR_ATmega2560__)add this at the end of the line:
Code: [Select]
|| defined(__AVR_ATmega640__)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 07:57:59 PM by Ro-Bot-X »
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Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 12:37:16 PM »
This is a windows program that will let you upload raw .hex over arduino bootloader:

http://xloader.russemotto.com/

(Ro-Bot-X originally found it)

So Admin, I think it's time to change what ships out on the Axons.

I guess I can try to get it working on one of my Axons, but since it's not an "open source" device/project, I expect some compensation.  :P :P

Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 12:56:02 PM »
Well, that was a quick failure. I don't know enough about bootloaders or avrdude to do this.

First obstacle I see is the Arduino bootloader requires the USB <-> uart chip's DTR line to be tied to reset, so it can reset the chip and activate the boot loader.

Is the Axon wired this way Admin?

Offline Admin

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2011, 01:32:22 PM »
The reset pin of the ATmega640, or the reset pin of the CP2102?

http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon/downloads/axon_schematic.pdf

Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2011, 01:37:09 PM »
DTR to reset of the Atmega.

And checking your schematic, no it is not. So the Arduino bootloader would not work without the user somehow resetting the chip at the same time the PC side is looking for the handshake.

Makes me wonder how the FBOOT bootloader works if it's not resetting the Atmega before flash.

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2011, 01:55:44 PM »
The bootloader for FBOOT waits for a small fraction of a second during mcu startup. If it detects a command on the USB, it'll load the new bootloader. Otherwise, when the time expires, it'll just load the last program.

Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2011, 01:58:54 PM »
O that's right, I remember now. It's been so long since I used the Axon Bootloader.

Arduino does the same thing, but the UART USB chip has the ability to reset the ATMEGA so there is no power cycling needed. Maybe this would work, but would require a hardcore programmer. I am not.

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2011, 02:26:34 PM »
FBOOT just needs to be recompiled to run on 64-bit systems, no?

It's source is available, are there any programmers out there willing to give it a try? Not sure how much, or if anything, needs to be modified.

Maybe a few emails to Danni (the FBOOT author) might even be in order. I tried a year ago, but no luck . . .

Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2011, 02:34:54 PM »
FBOOT just needs to be recompiled to run on 64-bit systems, no?

Even for 32 bit would be ok, it's currently 16 right now.

I remember googling many pages where people were asking for a 64bit compatible version on AVR freaks and the like. This isn't a new problem.

Offline Ro-Bot-X

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2011, 04:14:02 PM »
I have tried to use the Arduino bootloader on my Axon I but failed. I mean I can load it up on the Axon with the programmer, the Status LED blinks, as there is no code loaded, every time the bootloader waiting time defaults, the chip goes back to running the bootloader. To reset the Axon when trying to upload I needed to use a jumper on the ISP programmer pins 5 and 6 (Reset and GND) and for some reason I could not find the proper timing to have the bootloader communicate with the computer. I have tried from the Arduino IDE and from the Xloader. Unfortunatelly, the Axon does not have the UART1 pins brought to headers, so I have no way of bypassing the USB chip to try to upload the code using a FTDI cable (with a 0.1uF capacitor connected to the Reset pin on the ISP connector). So, I will try to contact Mark Sproul again for a bootloader that uses UART0 so I can verify that it works.
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Offline Kelpy

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2011, 09:44:42 AM »
FBOOT just needs to be recompiled to run on 64-bit systems, no?

Even for 32 bit would be ok, it's currently 16 right now.

I remember googling many pages where people were asking for a 64bit compatible version on AVR freaks and the like. This isn't a new problem.

Hi madsci1016,

I'm using fboot on Windows 7 32 bit, with no problems ;)  ( I have to admit, I did opt for the 32 bit version intentionally, with my Axon II in mind ).
I did have to use the compatibility wizard, though.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 09:48:13 AM by Kelpy »

Offline madsci1016

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Re: Windows 7 64bit Bootloader for Axon II
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2011, 09:48:16 AM »
Hi madsci1016,

I'm using fboot on Windows 7 32 bit, with no problems ;)
I did have to use the compatibility wizard, though.

It's not Win7 that is the problem, it's the 64 bit that is. It should work fine on Win 7 32bit.

This should be a growing concern for Admin, as Win 7 just passed Vista in sales, and over half of Win 7 installs are 64 bit. So there's a rather large and growing customer base that his product is not compatible with.

 


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