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Author Topic: three phase brushless motor conntroller  (Read 2507 times)

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Offline Jak24Topic starter

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three phase brushless motor conntroller
« on: July 22, 2010, 01:19:09 PM »
HI

I have been looking at some motors.(from http://www.faulhaber.com/)
and i realized that there brushless three phase motors have about the same torque but are like 4 or 5 times faster then their brushed motors, and for my current project speed is essential.
(i have been looking at this one  especially: http://www.faulhaber.com/uploadpk/EN_2036B_MIN.pdf  with the gearbox:http://www.faulhaber.com/uploadpk/EN_201_MIN.pdf   23: 1 reductoin)
But i don't know anything about controlling them :P(and i haven't seen any tutorials about them)
The only thing i found was this controller: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/9455/l6229.pdf
And even tough the datasheet is pretty informing could someone suggest a tutorial or lay down the basics of brushless three phase motor controlling or at least tell me where to connect the VBOOT, VCP, DIAG, RCPULSE, TACHO ,VREF, RCOFF pins ?
and also :
would it be a problem if i use the l6229 controller for this motor:http://www.faulhaber.com/uploadpk/EN_2036B_MIN.pdf and not use the hall sensor pins, cause all i need is to control the speed and direction.
and i don't know the stall current of the motor, so I'm not sure if the l6229 can handle the stall current(according to the datasheet the max output current is 2.8 A)
if anyone has some other motor suggestion,
please do advise !
Thanks

Regards
Jak24

 

Offline waltr

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2010, 02:28:07 PM »
Never used them but have skimmer data sheets and app notes.

Allegro has drive chips and app notes at:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Categories/ICs/motor.asp

Microchip also has some app notes:
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1469

A little additional searching of motor drive chips and apps will get you some more info.

Offline madsci1016

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2010, 04:21:39 PM »
Have you looked at Hobby grade (airplanes, helicopters) Brushless motors? They are three phase, and use sensorless commutation, so only three wires running to the motor.

The hobby three phase motor controllers are easy to command, most if not all run off PWM. And all the parts are cheap.


Just a consideration, don't know if they will fit what you need.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 04:30:31 PM by madsci1016 »

Offline Admin

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2010, 05:47:46 PM »
What rotational speeds do you require? And for what purpose?

Every brushless motor speed controller you could shake a stick at:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=&FVSEARCH=BRUSHLESS+MOTOR+esc&search=Go

Offline Jak24Topic starter

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 04:27:17 AM »
Hi

Thanks for replies!

I'm building a 1.5kg robot driven by four omniwheel's, these:
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R98-4CM-POLY-ROLLER-3.html
Have you looked at Hobby grade (airplanes, helicopters) Brushless motors? They are three phase, and use sensorless commutation, so only three wires running to the motor.

The hobby three phase motor controllers are easy to command, most if not all run off PWM. And all the parts are cheap.


Just a consideration, don't know if they will fit what you need.

I didn't really consider model motors cause they don't have gearboxes,(at lease the ones i look at)
if there is some with gear boxes, please do inform
The motor only should have roughly these specs:
30000 rpm
5mNm continues torque
25 mNm stall torque
and less than 1A continues current
with the gearbox reduction it should have:
1200 rpm(ok if more)
and 120+mNm of continues torque
400+mNm of stall torque
I still think this motor looks fine:http://www.faulhaber.com/uploadpk/EN_2036B_MIN.pdf
with the gearbox:http://www.faulhaber.com/uploadpk/EN_201_MIN.pdf  (23:1)
but i don't know the stall current(it's not in the datasheet, and if i use the L6229 controller I'm not sure if it could handle it's stall current,
What rotational speeds do you require? And for what purpose?

Every brushless motor speed controller you could shake a stick at:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=&FVSEARCH=BRUSHLESS+MOTOR+esc&search=Go

those controller are for robots with receiver(i don't need one)
Never used them but have skimmer data sheets and app notes.

Allegro has drive chips and app notes at:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Categories/ICs/motor.asp

Microchip also has some app notes:
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1469

A little additional searching of motor drive chips and apps will get you some more info.


hmm... they look fine, but way to fancy for what i would need(i don't need the hall sensor feature )  , but i would need something that is an all in one(not a huge circuit required besides the driver)
So could anyone tell me if this motor:http://www.faulhaber.com/uploadpk/EN_2036B_MIN.pdf
 can be controlled by the l6229(http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/9455/l6229.pdf)
or suggest another controller(all i need is to control the direction and speed for four motors)
thanks

Regards
Jak24

Offline Soeren

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2010, 09:57:22 PM »
Hi,

400+mNm of stall torque
[...]
but i don't know the stall current(it's not in the datasheet,
Yes it is!
Point 7 (stall torque) times point 13 (current constant).
Stall current = 22 [mNm] x 0.158 [A/mNm] = 3.476 [A] ~3.5A

Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline Jak24Topic starter

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 03:48:26 AM »
HI!

I have been looking at other controllers, especially this one:
http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/4931/index.asp
Does anyone have any suggestions on what kind of N-channel MOSFETs i should use?
and also does anyone know how to mount the driver chip (28 contact QFN) on a breadboard, are there any sort of mountings for them?
as i would like to test it out before i solder it on a PCB :P
Or should i look for different controller with DIP package?
Advice/suggestions appreciated!
Thanks

regards
Jak24

Offline Soeren

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Re: three phase brushless motor conntroller
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 06:56:00 AM »
Hi,

Or should i look for different controller with DIP package?
That would make it easier for you, but may be hard to find.

Why not go to a junkyard and get some old printers, VHS recorders or similar and get the motors from them?
Lots of brushless motors to be found and they all comes with a controller that could be used.
Right in front of me, I have one I've taken apart for the Hall sensors and the controller is a NEC PC1246C, which I have found a DS for and will be desoldering for later use.
Go for something a little old-ish (the one mentioned is from a Sony -MAX recorder), like say, 15..25 years if possible, as the recent types all comes in SMD.
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

 


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