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Author Topic: is the chip working????!!!!  (Read 1303 times)

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Offline 123laurensTopic starter

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is the chip working????!!!!
« on: November 05, 2010, 07:06:11 AM »
hi,im building a 50$ish robot,the only difference is im not using photosistors,instead an unmodified servo and sharp IR
when i got the components,the 28 pin header thing for the chip was too wide,so i didnt youse it,and im thinking just maby the chip is brocken,for possibly 3 reasons:

1. i was yousing a 60W soldering iron (dont worry,I got a 40W halfway thru) and when i solderd the headers on some melted,i think i may have held my iron longer on those pins cuz my tip was big(on the 60W) and there was hardly enything to solder.
however,the maximun operating temp is 150 degrees Celsius, and sometimes i felt the chip,and i didnt burn my had off(it was hot tho,but you chud ceep your finger on it)and when i noticed this i whaited 5 seconds before soldering another pin

2.whed i read these chips were static sensitive,my hart sank. i read on some site you must touch something metal before handleing these chips.i was however wearing crocks(rubber shues) i my soldering stand was metal,not earthed thow.


cinda not about the chip,but im yousing a pocket avr programer from sparkfun and 6 pin header. i saw this one day with one of the chips having a slightly magnetic skrewdriver(just magnetic inuf to pick up skrews)can this be damiged?

to my conclusion
do yu think my chip is ok? dont tell me to "maby scrap this one and try again,instead doing this and this differently"
because i live in south Africa and the only perf board i got was one from Sparkfun.the electronics were bought in another city,but i SA whith a smaller shipping cost but long delay.i think when i start working on it again(its now exams) i will add that 6 pin programer thing and add a bacik LED_on,LED_off program to test, but i cant whait that long!this is gust haunting me,and my parents say that if this doesnt work,were not doing it again,otherwize you may.


HELP!!!
edit: i got the ATmega328 from Sparkfun and they sent it in a normal plastic bag with no special anti-static bag thingy. does this mean the ATmega328 is not static sensitive? i did go to the bathroom before soldering it in,can an iron door handle remove static?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 02:39:24 AM by 123laurens »

Offline M.I.T.

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 09:03:38 PM »
The microcontroller is shorted I have had the same problem before.

Offline 123laurensTopic starter

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2010, 02:21:56 AM »
im not saying the chip is brocken,am asking wather! i havent tryed the chip so thats why i made this post

Offline 123laurensTopic starter

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 01:17:28 AM »
i just want to know how common it is for a chip to be damiged by static and if the chip chud be damiged by heat if it was still tuchable without burning your hand and the max storage temp is 150 degrees C.

Offline knossos

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 07:56:44 AM »
i just want to know how common it is for a chip to be damiged by static and if the chip chud be damiged by heat if it was still tuchable without burning your hand and the max storage temp is 150 degrees C.

Speaking in general, yes ICs (integrated circuits, or "chips") can be damaged by static just from handling and can also be damaged by heat even when you can still safely touch it without burning yourself.  Some ICs are much more robust than others for both static and temperature but a good rule of thumb is if you don't know if its sensitive, treat it as if it is sensitive.

I would recommend investing in ESD (electrostatic discharge) protection such as a wrist strap and an ESD mat.
"Never regret thy fall,
O Icarus of the fearless flight
For the greatest tragedy of them all
Is never to feel the burning light."
 
— Oscar Wilde

Offline Soeren

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 03:32:08 PM »
Hi,

Speaking in general, yes ICs (integrated circuits, or "chips") can be damaged by static just from handling
Yes, but an ESD damage can be very hard or even impossible to actually credit to ESD, since the damage could be eg. a weakening of a trace in the crystal, showing up as damage a week or a few years from when it actually happened.


and can also be damaged by heat even when you can still safely touch it without burning yourself. 
I have to disagree here!
If you can hold an object without feeling pain, the temp will be less than 50°C to 60°C tops.
Soldering the leads, the temp. won't get much over 100° at the crystal at that point.


Some ICs are much more robust than others for both static and temperature but a good rule of thumb is if you don't know if its sensitive, treat it as if it is sensitive.

I would recommend investing in ESD (electrostatic discharge) protection such as a wrist strap and an ESD mat.
A wrist strap won't hurt anything, but common sense goes a long way - I very rarely use wrist straps, since they're annoying to clasp/unclasp and I haven't seen any ESD damage yet (apart from a few made on purpose to evaluate the subject).

And as 123laurens seem to have a hard time convincing his parents of letting him become a great engineer, I'd rather advice him to practice soldering on some scrapped boards - and to always use a socket - the one that was too narrow could be cut into two pieces and installed with the correct distance.

123laurens <- May I ask how old you are?
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline VegaObscura

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 07:27:58 PM »
As far as static electricity goes, unless you saw a spark I think it's very unlikely that you damaged it.  But using a 60W iron with a large tip straight on the chip with no socket, that's just asking for trouble.  If any of the black casing of the chip is melted, there's a pretty good chance that the electronics inside are fried too.

Also, what country are you from?

Offline knossos

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2010, 10:07:12 PM »
and can also be damaged by heat even when you can still safely touch it without burning yourself. 
I have to disagree here!
If you can hold an object without feeling pain, the temp will be less than 50°C to 60°C tops.
Soldering the leads, the temp. won't get much over 100° at the crystal at that point.

I should have clarified, even though some can be damaged by heat even when you can still safely touch them, for the most part, electronics operating conditions tend to be greater than yours.  Most can withstand much colder temperatures and much hotter temperatures than you can.

Also regarding the ESD strap, I rarely ever use one during any personal projects, but at work its a different story.  They are mandatory where I work and not using one can be grounds for dismissal.  If you are careful, an ESD strap is not usually necessary, but as Soeren also pointed out earlier, it can be hard or even impossible to notice ESD damage.  For pet projects its just a matter of some $$ (usually not a great expense either) and inconvenience, but if you work in the field it is likely to be mandatory for you and better to get into the habit of doing things right.
"Never regret thy fall,
O Icarus of the fearless flight
For the greatest tragedy of them all
Is never to feel the burning light."
 
— Oscar Wilde

Offline 123laurensTopic starter

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 09:11:12 AM »
Quote
123laurens <- May I ask how old you are?
14,but i have made 3D games(with game maker,almost purely in code,GML(Game Maker Langwige,lol)
understand bacic consepts of electronics and always dreamed of building a robot.(my current goal)

Quote
Also, what country are you from?
South Africa,quite remote so shipping costs a lot

Quote
Yes, but an ESD damage can be very hard or even impossible to actually credit to ESD, since the damage could be eg. a weakening of a trace in the crystal, showing up as damage a week or a few years from when it actually happened.
good,im going to get a different microcontroller when the time komes,and raize inuf money for a new one. i didnt see a spark.

Quote
If any of the black casing of the chip is melted, there's a pretty good chance that the electronics inside are fried too.
it seems perfectly fine,the plastic has no disorder whatsoever.

thanks for the comments so far,im just a little new to soldering on a perf board,i usualy solder wires to swiches or patentometers or lamps(or this HUGE capacitor i found in an old TV set) and soldering briges seems imposable. at least that expensive chip seems ok.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 09:20:37 AM by 123laurens »

Offline Soeren

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 11:14:56 AM »
Hi,

14,but i have made 3D games(with game maker,almost purely in code,GML(Game Maker Langwige,lol)
understand bacic consepts of electronics and always dreamed of building a robot.(my current goal)

Oh, you have time to practice then :)


South Africa,quite remote so shipping costs a lot

Shop locally!

ATMega8  (35 Rand)

ATmega16  (44.46 Rand)
I have no idea whether VAT is included, but you could shoot them an email asking.

Seems to be the only two Atmel controllers they stock (but they got 2 pages of MicroChip PIC's).

You might wanna take a look here as well, you might find something usable.


good,im going to get a different microcontroller when the time komes,and raize inuf money for a new one. i didnt see a spark.

The controller you have may be OK, but don't judge ESD damage on whether you did see a spark, most semiconductors will die at voltages way under the point where a spark can fly.


thanks for the comments so far,im just a little new to soldering on a perf board,i usualy solder wires to swiches or patentometers or lamps(or this HUGE capacitor i found in an old TV set) and soldering briges seems imposable. at least that expensive chip seems ok.

Find a broken piece of electronics (TV, Radio, VHS, whatever) and practise on that - while you're at it, salvage some components for future use.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline 123laurensTopic starter

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2010, 11:30:37 AM »
Quote
Shop locally!
i did,from that same company actually,but i wanted to get the ATmega328 as it has more memory,and i thout it whud be better in the long run.also because it whud save money to buy the ATmega328 from sparkfun then so if i can my mind i don't have to pay this large import tax and shipping costs again,and i know that if you want something not to make dumb decisions it will make 50% of the time(which a youser whud call glitches)the code will need to be longer,and even longer to keep it stable for future functions.i yoused that company to buy the resistor that socket that didn't fit and everything else except for the microcontroller and perf board,from sparkfun.

Offline Soeren

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Re: is the chip working????!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2010, 11:54:05 AM »
Hi,

[...] but i wanted to get the ATmega328 as it has more memory,and i thout it whud be better in the long run.
Well, it's gonna take you some time filling the memory, unless you do extremely sloppy programming - and if... You need to practice your coding skills rather than just adding memory.

You're not buying a microcontroller for life, so just go ahead and use an '8 or '16 as your grinding stone. 10 years from now you have either dropped microcontrollers completely or you have a load of them (and you always use sockets for them! ;D).
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

 


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