Author Topic: neuron controlled robot  (Read 4624 times)

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Offline sharboticTopic starter

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neuron controlled robot
« on: June 11, 2007, 07:06:53 PM »
i am working on a neuron-to-silicon interface robot.  check it out and let me know what you think.
http://ksharber.googlepages.com

kenny

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 07:55:56 PM »
so ummmm . . . where ya gettin the neurons from?

(dont forget to post pics of it when you get the neuron stuff working!)

Offline Tsukubadaisei

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 08:30:55 AM »
Interesting, my research theme is "the opposite" of yours. Instead of putting living neurons inside a machine, I put a machine inside a bunch of living neurons. I research neuron emulation. The main application, for now, is to substitute dead neurons(because most of the neurons can't regenerate) in living organisms. Latter we might use this for animats or even computers(for advanced AI). This is everything I am allowed to say, for now.
Man, I think you shouldn't open your research for the public like that. We never know, someone may steal it before you actually publish a serious paper.

so ummmm . . . where ya gettin the neurons from?

(dont forget to post pics of it when you get the neuron stuff working!)

We get it from a rat fetal spinal. (A senior of mine has access for monkey fetal spinals)
Fetal stages are the best because the neurons are not specialized yet, so you are able to induce to grow in any way you want.(that is why human fetus are so valuable(fetal human neural stem cells (hNSCs)))
If you want to know how to get those fetus then it depends on the place I think. In my case, we produce our own.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 08:32:51 AM by Tsukubadaisei »
A.I.(yes those are my initials)

Offline sharboticTopic starter

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 08:42:58 PM »
fetal house mouse.

it truely isnt opening up..  it is all a given.  the NEURALLY CONTROLLED ANIMAT paper by Delmarse  clearly defines how to go about interfacing to silicon. google it.  i think that when people keep things super secret just incase they might make a buck, it hinders the process.  if i throw this out there, perhaps somebody will take it to the next level, and they will throw it out there, and it goes on and on.  i am all about Free Information.  i work 50 hours a week repairing electronics for the military, so i dont plan on this being my ticket to fame and fortune.  i am bideing my time until veterinary school. 

i am currently reading Single Neuron Computation edited by THomas McKenna, Joel Davis, an Steven Zornetzer.  i highly recommend it for anyone intrested in neuron simulation.  i picked it up on amazon for 30 dollars, i think.

anyway,
thanks:)
kenny

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 05:06:40 AM »
I agree with sharbotic.

To 'invent' something, and to make it marketable, are two very different things. The latter is much much harder and requires tons more work.

To be honest, the inventing part is just so much more fun. :D

Plus, the completed neuron robot could make a good resume addition for his next job - making him an indirect profit :P

Offline sharboticTopic starter

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2007, 04:04:34 AM »
that is how i see it.  i think so many people confuse their hobby with something done to make a profit.

kenny

Offline maverick monk

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2007, 10:19:26 AM »
and other people use the thaught of making money as an excuse for their hobbies... it couldent be me though... lol

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 10:23:25 AM »
What legal hurdles did you guys need to go through to work with these neurons?

Offline Tsukubadaisei

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2007, 02:27:43 AM »
that is how i see it.  i think so many people confuse their hobby with something done to make a profit.

kenny
and other people use the thaught of making money as an excuse for their hobbies... it couldent be me though... lol

1)Somehow, my job happens to be my hobby. Furthermore my job is expensive and I need money to continue it.

2)It is love for what you do. I don't know if any of you guys have a girlfriend, but if you love her would you share your girlfriend with others? I won't and I will never. The same applies for my work and all the other things and people I love.

3)I am not alone. My work is just a small brick in a big wall. There are other people both in the company I work for and in the university I study in that rely on my research and I rely on their research as well. If I start telling everything to everyone I will not only spoil my work but my colleagues works as well. It is a question of trust.

I agree with sharbotic.

To 'invent' something, and to make it marketable, are two very different things. The latter is much much harder and requires tons more work.

To be honest, the inventing part is just so much more fun. :D

Plus, the completed neuron robot could make a good resume addition for his next job - making him an indirect profit :P


Inventing and marketing are equally difficult. Indeed, you can invent a lot of stuff pretty easily, but are your inventions really worth? Every year thousands of patents are registered around the globe but the ones you actually see on the street represent less the 5% of the total. All the others are just a waste. A waste of life.


if i throw this out there, perhaps somebody will take it to the next level, and they will throw it out there, and it goes on and on.


Yes I agree with you, but I would only do that after I finished my job and said: I give up, I have done everything I could, now I leave my legacy.
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I am not saying that there shouldn't be any sort of cooperation between people. I am just saying that some secrets should be protected until the right time because the reward might be much greater than you expect. I myself actually have my "public domain" work as well (for Linux, not to mention the tutorial that I am writing for the SoR contest 2007 (I don't care about the 200 bucks, because it is a tutorial for a robot that I will be using for 2 other competitions and my expenses are being covered by some sponsors, not to mention the possible prize)). I have the same dream that most of the users here have that is seeing a world where robotics and cybernetics would be as natural as automobilistics or computing. the problem is that when your future depends on a secret, then I believe you should protect it no mater what.
Since both ADMIN and sharbotic work for US army, I think they know exactly what I mean. I wonder what would happen if one of you starts telling what you see and do. Probably the government will send some sort of spy in order to "keep the silence". :D

Anyway that is the way I see the things. Just my opinion. Personally I don't care if  others start telling their secrets. ::). That is my final word about it.

What legal hurdles did you guys need to go through to work with these neurons?

Excellent question my friend. Since the technology is in its very very early stages. Here in Japan, at least for my case, I am free to do whatever I want as long I respect the human rights. And by keeping secrecy, my research will not be subject of debate that might just bring obstacles. And since the neurons come from mouses, then there is no problem at all. I will face some problems in the very later stages, probably in 10 year, when we start trying the stuff with humans.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 02:39:05 AM by Tsukubadaisei »
A.I.(yes those are my initials)

Offline sharboticTopic starter

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2007, 07:38:45 PM »
well, the humane society does not consider mice to be animals, so i have ran into no hurdles.  i am as humane as possible, using anasthesia and what not.

working for the government is like working on someone else's project.  and speaking about the work i do is like spilling the beans on someone else's project without their permission.  however, the robot is MY project.  there are no trade secrets exposed on the page INTENTIONALLY so as to promote intrested parties in searching out the information for themselves.  that was the hard part.  the easy part is putting together the robot, and programming the controller, and soldering, etc. 

also, i am not concerned about a debate as there is already a precedent set by Delmarse, and personally, i enjoy arguing.  what would the arguments be?  that brains were meant for heads? 

this is a small term project with big (yet reachable) goals that i want to be copylefted(check out the wikipedia article on it)

thanks
kenny

Offline Tsukubadaisei

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Re: neuron controlled robot
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2007, 02:37:15 AM »
well, the humane society does not consider mice to be animals, so i have ran into no hurdles.  i am as humane as possible, using anasthesia and what not.


Lol, I almost typed that. In my lab the only guy who had to deal with some hurdles was the one who is messing with monkeys (he had to sign some papers and he has to respect a limit). Before I joined the lab that they used goats as well but no hurdles at all.

Well, since you are doing this project alone, than it is actually quite a task. After my vacation starts, will read all your progress and will see if I maybe help with something. If you manage to control a robot using neurons I think you may become quite famous, not to mention rich.

Good luck in your quest!
A.I.(yes those are my initials)

 


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