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Author Topic: Building My 1st Robot  (Read 918 times)

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Offline PhyroHydrousTopic starter

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Building My 1st Robot
« on: July 25, 2012, 01:46:49 AM »
Well i just recently got interested in robotics. Now I wanna make one. I read that before building you have to know what the robot will do first. I decided it will be like the follow me robot(And I'll make it look like R2D2 ). It will follow me when i say it's name or something simple and stop when i say stop or something simple.

Can I do this with an AVR microcontroller? Do i even need a microcontroller ? If i do what type do you advice (something cheap :p).

So yeah...

Offline newInRobotics

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 03:30:51 PM »
Can I do this with an AVR microcontroller?
Yes You can :)

Do i even need a microcontroller ?
Yes You do :)

If i do what type do you advice (something cheap :p).
Get something like ATmega48 :) Cheap and full of features.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristian W

Offline Soeren

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2012, 07:52:13 PM »
Hi,

Do i even need a microcontroller ? If i do what type do you advice (something cheap :p).

You probably need a microcontroller board (if you don't wanna make one yourself).

A cheap ($26.95) but very capable board:
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,892,893&Prod=CHIPKIT-UNO32

A step up, more I/O, program memory and RAM etc (plus USB OTG) board (still cheap at $49.50) for when you need it (not the first couple of years I assume :))
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,892,894&Prod=CHIPKIT-MAX32

Both boards work with most Arduino code and shields (it's like an Arduino on steroids, 32 bit and 80MHz).
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline rodstar

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 10:17:59 PM »
Yes you need a microcontroller.

I would recommend you a UBW32. It's a 32-bit PIC32, 78 pins breadboard compatible pins. For usd $39 you get the top of the line microcontroller, with 6 uarts, up to 120 MIPS, 32-bit timers, tons of pins. Widely supported in the web. You can program it via USB via bootloader. It also features hardware audio capabilities.

Another option is Arduino but it is for the copy/paste philosophy people. You are limited to the features of pre-made libraries. It's a 8-bit microcontroller and it's more expensive...

Offline Soeren

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 04:25:10 PM »
Hi,

Another option is Arduino but it is for the copy/paste philosophy people. You are limited to the features of pre-made libraries. It's a 8-bit microcontroller and it's more expensive...
But going with the ChipKit32 boards, you have both the 32 bit PIC and the Arduino code compatibility ;D

It's not that the Arduonos are more geared towards Drag&Drop coding, that's just the result of a vast user base, leading lots of users to not reinvent the wheel over and over.
If you wanna make it hard on yourself, you can easily do so with Arduino as well as any other board/core.

The Arduino compatibility of the ChipKit32 is a very smart feature for a beginner, as lots of examples can then be Drag&Drop'ed until the user is somewhat familiar with how to code on his own.

Your argument about being limited to existing libraries is pure baloney and just shows that you really don't understand all that much about programming - nothing stops you from using library functions for some of the code, your own HL code for the rest and when you grow hair on your chest sometime, you'll do the same, intermingling libraries (made by you or others) with plain code, just directly on the iron.

It's a very good idea not to comment on things you don't really understand - it only adds confusion for the poor guy trying to make heads or tails of the answers he gets :)
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline rodstar

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 08:40:50 PM »
Your argument about being limited to existing libraries is pure baloney and just shows that you really don't understand all that much about programming - nothing stops you from using library functions for some of the code, your own HL code for the rest and when you grow hair on your chest sometime, you'll do the same, intermingling libraries (made by you or others) with plain code, just directly on the iron.

From time to time appear this kind of arrogant snippy pert Arduino pets.
Arduino is focused to people who won't spend time for programming. Artists, whatever... anything but programmers or electricians (sorry my english), that's the slogan.

If someone programs a library then he is beyond the aim of Arduino: sell their cheap weak boards at high price to many lots of people (noobs are the most). I must recognize they did a great bussiness model. I congratulate them.

I'm not against Arduino, I just say it's preset to elemental high level programming (if you know what high level programming means) unless you code a library.

When a project doesn't match that pre-made library then you program your own library. When I develop a robotic system I worry about efficiency and trusty coding that will make a quality product. So ASM (low level language) under C++ are my developing languages to achieve high end multitasking, hard to do with the "delay (50)" stupidity... to say something.

Arduino is made for the non programmer, non electronic, non electric. So it's made for noobs. It's a fact. It's just for fast prototyping, when efficiency or resource tunning is not a need.

So I warn this guy so he has the information to be open minded to know the limitations and stuff about Arduino.

I laugh at you, Soeren, you saying "shows that you really don't understand all that much about programming" or "when you grow hair on your chest sometime" ... well, god has made all kind of funny ignorant and pert creatures... so let them make noise, bite, bark and jump around over and over disturbing the neighborhood.

Offline Soeren

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 01:07:41 AM »
Your argument about being limited to existing libraries is pure baloney and just shows that you really don't understand all that much about programming - nothing stops you from using library functions for some of the code, your own HL code for the rest and when you grow hair on your chest sometime, you'll do the same, intermingling libraries (made by you or others) with plain code, just directly on the iron.

From time to time appear this kind of arrogant snippy pert Arduino pets.
Arduino is focused to people who won't spend time for programming. Artists, whatever... anything but programmers or electricians (sorry my english), that's the slogan.
Are we debating the original goals of the Arduino or can we move to the present?


If someone programs a library then he is beyond the aim of Arduino:
Sounds like you'd like to be in charge of who are allowed to use Arduinos?
Wake up and smell the coffee... Arduino is used in lots of engineering facilities.
Why on earth do you argue that Arduinos are only about either using libraries or writing libraries - it's a microcontroller board, plain and simple and how it's controller is programmed is up to the user pushing the keys... No more, no less.


I'm not against Arduino,
You could have fooled me!


I just say it's preset to elemental high level programming (if you know what high level programming means) unless you code a library.
Lemme see... Perhaps it is vaguely related to what I described as a HL language... Nes pas?

If you divert your eyes towards how Arduinos are used outside what your prejudgement dictates, you may get a different opinion.

Do you know what language Arduinos are programmed in??

You sound like using a HLL is a bad thing, but you do it yourself - probably for most of your code - I'm missing some consequence here.


When a project doesn't match that pre-made library then you program your own library.
Either that, or you just write the code needed - why this obsession with libraries as the only option on Arduinos?

Any microcontroller today have several HLL's and any microcontroller can use libraries or not, as the user chooses - don't confuse a board layout with the microcontroller.


When I develop a robotic system I worry about efficiency and trusty coding that will make a quality product.
Don't we all, at least... We The Engineers.


So ASM (low level language) under C++ are my developing languages to achieve high end multitasking, hard to do with the "delay (50)" stupidity... to say something.
Yeah, and well documented, easy read, code is for kids, right?  ;)

Which microcontrollers do you program multitasking on in C++ by the way?
And what kind of multitasking?
(Just curious here).


Arduino is made for the non programmer, non electronic, non electric. So it's made for noobs. It's a fact. It's just for fast prototyping, when efficiency or resource tunning is not a need.
So, Art-people and whoever else you deem acceptable Arduino users are noobs by default... Interesting viewpoint.

Being an electronics engineer, I'm sure mighty glad that I never touched an Arduino, or you'd really come down on me I'm sure ;)  8080's COSMACs, Z80, 65xx, 68xx, 80x86, ARM, PIC, Atmel, etc. etc. etc. and soon (I hope) an XMOS, but not a single Arduino, as I have found most other cores better suited to my needs for the last decade (plus I prefer to make my own boards).
This doesn't stop me from being in touch with reality though and the reality is that Arduino is found in lots of tech facilities.


So I warn this guy so he has the information to be open minded to know the limitations and stuff about Arduino.
You warn him against Arduino, but claim that you're not against it... How does that compute?
How well do you really know the Arduino?
Did you ever had one in your hands (go wash your hands immediately ;D)?

Do you know the ChipKit32 board at all?
(Which besides its Arduino code compatibility is a real power house, can do all the UBW32 can, same controller, but with more I/O, a 10/100 Ethernet and dual CAN controllers and a good support from Microchip and the dedicated support forum (and what seems to be of a better build quality) - all at less than $10 over the UBW32 - I know where I'd throw my money, if I ever was to buy either).


Newbies cannot afford a lot of openmindedness in that respect. They struggle to find the least chaotic way into controllers - and lo and behold, if it isn't a system where thousands, or even millions can help them with source code snippets and such. their further venture into controllers or not will be a personal choice for each, but with a softer learning curve start, lots more people get into any subject.

It's just like the OS that we all love to hate... If it wasn't for the Windows OS (at least from Ver3, ver. 1 was ugly and unusable and sold next to nothing), a PC would probably cost 20 to 50 times of what it does now (a company I worked for in the eighties sold PC's, amongst more high tech stuff and a usable equipped PC-AT went for the equivalent of US$10,000 although I got a 50% employee discount :) It was shortly after I bought that AT, that Windows ver. 1 was released), all because of a large customer base, which again has lead to a lot of businesses (both SW and HW) that wouldn't have existed, had Windows not been around.


I laugh at you, Soeren, you saying "shows that you really don't understand all that much about programming" or "when you grow hair on your chest sometime" ... well, god has made all kind of funny ignorant and pert creatures...
Happy to amuse you. And the ignorants, like those claiming that the Arduino can only be programmed using libraries?  Laugh at them all you want as well, I know I do ;)


And just for good measures, let me state that I haven't ever, nor do I plan to at any time in the future, used any Arduino, although there may be one or two "by-products" that' might be interesting for some apps.

And further... I have programmed microprocessors and microcontrollers since the early seventies and I have never (and nor do I expect to ever), see(n) a core that couldn't be programmed in assembler, no matter what board it was fitted in - the early cores OTOH didn't have any HLL's at all  ;)


(Perhaps this belongs better in "Misc". I hope the OP is not scared too far off the subject)
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline rodstar

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Re: Building My 1st Robot
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 09:32:59 AM »
Really, yesterday I joined this forum to help people. I wont spend my free time to play ping pong with a fanatic troll.

My recomendation is that if he wants to play piano with both hands, then study and practice the technique, not just press the play button... and just play the single melody with a finger in the right hand.

Going to the root of this thread the guy asks for his 1st robot... the main line is that if this guy (PhyroHydrous) want to get introduced to robotics he should start learning to program in a real compiler to understand how a microcontroller works from the roots.
Of course if he just wants to do basic things for the weekend and stay there, then Arduino mainframe will be his perfect match.

The Arduino catch is to use libraries to get easy and fast "programming" to get non programmers or noob (or "novice" if "noob" offends you (soren)) programmers get a running application. Of course you can do the same without libraries writing your own code, but if your gonna write your own code, why Arduino, a free non professional compiler? It's like trying to cook healthy food in a McDonald's kitchen. Better you use a pro compiler.

My point is exposed, enough said. Good luck.

 


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