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Author Topic: materials for stronger motors  (Read 863 times)

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Offline vipulan12Topic starter

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materials for stronger motors
« on: July 06, 2013, 01:49:02 PM »
hey guys, Has anyone heard of Metglas
this material has high permeability
which is a factor in the strength of electromagnets
of course this material is probably expensive but does anyone know how much exactly?
also where I could procure some?(if it isn't too expensive)

Offline jwatte

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 10:46:15 AM »
Metglas is a manufacturer/brand name. Here are the data sheets of their magnetic materials:
http://www.metglas.com/products/magnetic_materials/

Seems like a regular supplier of ferrite core material. Note that they recommend you anneal the material after fabrication of your inductor with field direction specific to the manufacture, so just using it at home may be challenging unless you're already good at doing this.

Offline vipulan12Topic starter

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 02:50:11 PM »
what do you mean by anneal also how do i buy this material exactly when i am trying to build motors?

Offline jwatte

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 10:23:12 AM »
Quote
what do you mean by anneal


I mean the metallurgical process of annealing.

Quote
how do i buy this material exactly when i am trying to build motors?


1. You go to their web site: http://www.metglas.com/
2. You look in the upper-right corner for the phone number for your area (for example, Asia: (852)27244183)
3. You call them up and ask them.


Offline vipulan12Topic starter

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2013, 04:02:50 PM »
has anyone heard of motors that use metglass?
also how can i get this metal annealed?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 04:14:27 PM by vipulan12 »

Offline jwatte

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2013, 11:29:51 PM »
What makes you think that Metglass is better than any other brand of ferrite?

Offline vipulan12Topic starter

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2013, 11:33:06 AM »
it has a high permeability, so you could make stronger motors that use less current
but there might be something wrong with using this material since i have never seen a motor using metglass
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 11:34:37 AM by vipulan12 »

Offline jwatte

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 02:02:32 PM »
Metglass is a company that makes ferrites. It is not a particular kind of material. There are many companies that makes ferrites. Metglas ferrites of a particular kind (say, cobalt-based) are likely no better or worse than the same kind of ferrite made by another company.

Who made the glass in your car windows? Who made the ceramics in your breakfast bowl? Who made the plastic in the handles of your kitchen knives? Who made the ferrite in the cores of your motors?

Just like there are tons of companies making aluminum, steel, plastics, and other standard materials, the makers of objects generally don't disclose who supplies their materials. I wouldn't be able to look at a motor or inductor, and tell who made the ferrite in the core. Might be using Metglass ferrite, might be using TDK ferrite, might be using Micrometals ferrite, or one of a zillion other manufacturers.

Offline jwatte

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2013, 02:14:48 PM »
Just to be clear: Here's a list of some companies that make ferrite of various composition:

http://people.zeelandnet.nl/wgeeraert/ferriet.htm

Ferrites made by Metglas are not "special" in any particular kind of way (nor are the ferrites made by any of the others.) They each have strengths/weaknesses, and the same set of strengths/weaknesses can be found in ferrites from many other manufacturers.

Offline itsjustgame578

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 12:03:19 PM »
Permalloy is great for a high saturation and extremely high relative permeability. Also, transformer steel is great for these applications. +1 for metglass.... expensive but great for the purpose you are describing.
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Offline itsjustgame578

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 12:55:23 PM »
ALSO - the OP is correct, MetGlass may be a trade name for a product, but it is a proprietary metal with specific ratios of elements that create a very strong relative permeability and high saturation. So in keeping with the previous analogy, who made the ceramic on your breakfast bowl? a company that has  created a less brittle ceramic and therefore doesn't shatter when you drop it.

Metglass has the 'best' magnetic properties of a mass produces metal. Take a gander at the table here where it lists magnetic properties of elements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_%28electromagnetism%29

To go about getting the material, the best way is to call directly and simply ask for a small sample... (FREE!)
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Offline vipulan12Topic starter

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 01:53:16 PM »
i am kinda lost about what you and Jwatte said before? i dont really get what your trying to say, are you saying what i am doing isnt going to make a difference or something?

Offline itsjustgame578

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 04:15:14 PM »
I have a MEMS and electromagnetic background and i have personally researched different magnetic materials for novel actuators.

You idea is viable, better magnetic properties within a electromagnetic actuator will increase efficeincy,... but at what cost? Also, you have to keep in mind the actual magnetic current you are pushing through, how effective is that?

If your idea is to simply take a stock actuator and replace ONLY the ferrite material within the actuator with a Metglas type material, in theory it should make the actuator more efficient yes.

Try to get your hands on something they call "Electrical Steel" or "transformer steel." This material has superior magnetic properties than standard 18-8 steel but less than MetGlass, but it is DIRT CHEAP....
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:21:25 PM by itsjustgame578 »
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Offline vipulan12Topic starter

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 02:55:35 PM »
what do you mean by the current i am pushing through, isn't the current drawn by the motor
the more torque required the more current will be drawn
 where can i get my hands on some DIRT CHEAP electrical steel?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 02:59:20 PM by vipulan12 »

Offline jkerns

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Re: materials for stronger motors
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 08:06:32 AM »
In a DC motor,current will be a function of the winding resistance, winding inductance, back EMF (voltage) and supply voltage. Back EMF is a function of the motor speed (Kb*speed) - the faster the motor is spinning, the higher the back EMF, the lower the current. Torque is a function of the current (Kt*I).
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