Author Topic: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product  (Read 61679 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AdminTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #180 on: May 23, 2008, 05:04:27 AM »
Quote
Can you arrange some business deal with the guys who make Blackfin camera?
Like what? I've made deals with quite a few companies, but I'm keeping them secret until the Axon has gone on sale ;)
Lets just say, 'extensive code library' . . .

Speaking of which, I just bought all parts needed for manufacturing . . . and PCB manufacturing began yesterday. Hmmmm $500 in on/off switches . . .

I'm going to offer quanitity discounts for small volume purchases, too. And I made shipping free (within the US). Im fairly sure international shipping with be <$25, but don't quote me on that yet.

Offline gamefreak

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 543
  • Helpful? 2
  • Robo-Enthusiast
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #181 on: May 23, 2008, 05:44:21 AM »
Quote
Can you arrange some business deal with the guys who make Blackfin camera?
Like what? I've made deals with quite a few companies, but I'm keeping them secret until the Axon has gone on sale ;)
Lets just say, 'extensive code library' . . .

Speaking of which, I just bought all parts needed for manufacturing . . . and PCB manufacturing began yesterday. Hmmmm $500 in on/off switches . . .

I'm going to offer quanitity discounts for small volume purchases, too. And I made shipping free (within the US). Im fairly sure international shipping with be <$25, but don't quote me on that yet.

qouted  :D

so any idea in when the board will stop moving about and finally get mass produced? Everytime I get my wallet together, poof, switch manufacturers, or poof, needed to change the board,,, :-\
All hail Rodney, the holy 555 timer
And Steve said: "Let there be lead!"

Offline airman00

  • Contest Winner
  • Supreme Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,653
  • Helpful? 21
  • narobo.com
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #182 on: May 23, 2008, 05:50:08 AM »

Lets just say, 'extensive code library' . . .

nice dude!!!!
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline pomprocker

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,430
  • Helpful? 16
  • Sorry miss, I was giving myself an oil-job.
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #183 on: May 23, 2008, 09:44:37 AM »
Quote
Can you arrange some business deal with the guys who make Blackfin camera?
Like what? I've made deals with quite a few companies, but I'm keeping them secret until the Axon has gone on sale ;)
Lets just say, 'extensive code library' . . .

package deals, It would be nice to buy a blackfin camera and the axon together for a lower packaged price.


Offline BANE

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 639
  • Helpful? 4
  • E=roboticsC^2
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #184 on: May 23, 2008, 11:05:31 AM »
Quote
 
so any idea in when the board will stop moving about and finally get mass produced? Everytime I get my wallet together, poof, switch manufacturers, or poof, needed to change the board,,,
Ha, i hate that too :D.  I think all get my wallet out around next year.  Not because i don't have the money, but because theres no telling what kinds of features and compatiblities it will have when he gets done with it!. lol

Bane

Offline Centaur

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 41
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #185 on: May 23, 2008, 09:13:19 PM »
Turns out I'm more inexperienced than I thought when it comes to manufacturing.

The process of getting and negotiating price quotes is like a 2-3 week process, when I thought it was a 2-3 day process. Just when I'm ready, another company comes in with a better offer. At least I managed to save a few thousand by comparing ~12 different companies and negotiating with them 8)

So yea, I'm going to spend a huge sum of money in the next day or two. From that point on, its going to be about a ~15 day process. Then I'll spend a few more days putting on the final touches (testing, programming, etc).

But then again, my inexperience has made me really poor at estimating time . . . ;D

And I thought you were baiting us.  I've always heard to plan for at least twice the time and twice the money on development before you have a product.  So that means we could expect an Axon around the end of June, maybe mid July at the latest?  (fingers crossed)

At least your getting some cost savings in there so that you won't have to raise the price again :)
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.  It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction.  ~E.F. Schumacker

Offline gamefreak

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 543
  • Helpful? 2
  • Robo-Enthusiast
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #186 on: May 26, 2008, 10:47:40 AM »
But capitalism cant funtion without a price  ;)

In order to speed of production of the Axon II, admin will have to raise the price of the Axon I in order to acquire the funds for research and development, but raising the price will make less people interested, and to compensate you would have to charge the ones still interested even more. The only way it could function is with patience, which none of us consumers have, so the longer we wait the less interested we become, and the less purchases, which brings me back to the top of my rant....


Anyone have any plans for the Axon I?
All hail Rodney, the holy 555 timer
And Steve said: "Let there be lead!"

Offline Nyx

  • Robot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 204
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #187 on: May 27, 2008, 07:45:47 AM »
But capitalism cant funtion without a price  ;)

In order to speed of production of the Axon II, admin will have to raise the price of the Axon I in order to acquire the funds for research and development, but raising the price will make less people interested, and to compensate you would have to charge the ones still interested even more. The only way it could function is with patience, which none of us consumers have, so the longer we wait the less interested we become, and the less purchases, which brings me back to the top of my rant....


Anyone have any plans for the Axon I?

I'm sure at least 25 people on this board will buy it, and if it works half as well as the Admin promised us, these people will suggest the Axon to others, which will largely buy it, etc. The Axon has the advantage that there's already a community around it to do the publicity for *free*... And the Admin has plenty of "street cred", which will help sell the product ;)

Offline gamefreak

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 543
  • Helpful? 2
  • Robo-Enthusiast
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #188 on: May 27, 2008, 07:21:52 PM »
But capitalism cant funtion without a price  ;)

In order to speed of production of the Axon II, admin will have to raise the price of the Axon I in order to acquire the funds for research and development, but raising the price will make less people interested, and to compensate you would have to charge the ones still interested even more. The only way it could function is with patience, which none of us consumers have, so the longer we wait the less interested we become, and the less purchases, which brings me back to the top of my rant....


Anyone have any plans for the Axon I?

I'm sure at least 25 people on this board will buy it, and if it works half as well as the Admin promised us, these people will suggest the Axon to others, which will largely buy it, etc. The Axon has the advantage that there's already a community around it to do the publicity for *free*... And the Admin has plenty of "street cred", which will help sell the product ;)


Hey.......Admin........
can you.........
pay...............
us to............
advertise.......
for you?

I accept payments in Axons :D
All hail Rodney, the holy 555 timer
And Steve said: "Let there be lead!"

Offline AdminTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #189 on: June 02, 2008, 08:25:09 PM »
Figured I'd post an update . . . suspense is building up, eh? :P

I've started manufacturing as you guys already know. Manufacturing is about 40% done right now. PCB's are done.

In the attached pics you can see I prepped up a bunch of boxes for shipping, and a bunch of caps for soldering.

Took me 2+ hours to prepare all the breakaway male headers . . . my hands were sore for the next day :-\

And yea, I'm pushing this back another week . . . forgot that shipping to/from my manufacturer in Canada takes forever (I'm betting you aren't suprised, lol) . . . I'll be taking orders and going live in ~10 days. Can't wait! :)

Offline Gertlex

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
  • Helpful? 23
  • Nuclear Engineer Roboticist
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #190 on: June 02, 2008, 09:18:25 PM »
Order placed  8)
I

Offline airman00

  • Contest Winner
  • Supreme Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,653
  • Helpful? 21
  • narobo.com
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #191 on: June 03, 2008, 04:21:09 AM »
yea baby!!!

can;t wait to get mine

first in line ,lol
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline alovon

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 21
  • Helpful? 0
  • Sup
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #192 on: June 03, 2008, 06:51:37 AM »
Well you can expect an order from me whenever you get around to putting it out. looks great, what is it going to sell for?
Lost? You Betcha!

Offline S. Karim

  • Robot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 155
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #193 on: June 04, 2008, 07:18:50 PM »
Any dc motor control? Any way to hook vision up to it for onboard processing?

Offline Parth

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #194 on: June 04, 2008, 07:27:46 PM »
I'm totally gonna buy one after I get the money! It'll be my first microcontroller! ;D

Offline Rebelgium

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Helpful? 0
  • It's called the future ... We like it here
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #195 on: June 05, 2008, 03:36:33 AM »
Any dc motor control? Any way to hook vision up to it for onboard processing?

ofcourse.
You can hook up a motor driver to every microcontroller, and a camera with UART for example, to.
To relax after some hard work on robotics: A very fun free online text based MMORPG
orgcrime.net

Offline AdminTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #196 on: June 05, 2008, 06:36:34 AM »
There is no on-board motor driver, but you can easily hook up your own motor driver to it.

I haven't heard from my manufacturer lately, but in theory I should be getting everything sometime at the end of next week.

Offline benji

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #197 on: June 06, 2008, 04:08:03 AM »
looking at the pic of the axon i did see a 3300uF big cap  ,, why all that capacitance?

in the 7805 reg datasheet it says 0.33 uF at the input is pretty much suffiecient

or is it always that the bigger cap at input the better???
good ol' BeNNy

Offline TrickyNekro

  • Contest Winner
  • Supreme Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,207
  • Helpful? 15
  • 1.6L Peugeot 307 tuner
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #198 on: June 06, 2008, 04:33:19 AM »
looking at the pic of the axon i did see a 3300uF big cap  ,, why all that capacitance?

in the 7805 reg datasheet it says 0.33 uF at the input is pretty much suffiecient

or is it always that the bigger cap at input the better???


If you can see axon supports multiple servos at a time...
operating all together times may exist that current draw is at pick....
a voltage drop can bring abnormalities to the osc of the AVR even causing resets of the chips and data loss...
Also in you see (I'm not so sure about this....) the cap is 10V rated meaning that it's connected at the +5V circuit
for the same reason above...

But the Admin as the builder can explain better...
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline S. Karim

  • Robot Overlord
  • ****
  • Posts: 155
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #199 on: June 08, 2008, 07:03:10 PM »
I don't know much about building electronics (but it's what I want to do), but I praise you and highly admire your ability to just do things of the sort. Amazing job, it looks extremely attractive as well, as opposed to those ugly MCUs I see on websites that charge tons of dollars, $130 is absolutely reasonable for the amount of features I'm reading (even though I have no clue what 90% of them do). Also, I can't wait until you make some real in-depth documentation (with pictures!) on using the Blackfin camera for this.

So I have a few questions before I purchase and please excuse me if I sound ignorant or ask questions comparing apples and oranges:

1. How does this controller compare and contrast to Robonova's MR-C3024? As in price and features?

2. How does the Blackfin camera work with conjuction to the Axon? Does it receive an image, process it and then feed information on objects it recognizes back to the Axon or does it work in another way?

3. Would I be able to hook up some sort of LCD to the Axon for display of text, images or video from the camera? Ones like these:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=709
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8335
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8448#

4. Why didnt you choose to interface the CMUCam3 with it? Can't that one recognize faces and whatnot? That would've been amazing.

5. Is it possible to attach different camera systems onto the Axon? Or is it only made for the Blackfin?

Thanks.

Offline bens

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 331
  • Helpful? 3
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #200 on: June 08, 2008, 08:49:26 PM »
I was just looking through the Axon documentation and came across your RoHS disclaimer:

Quote
The Axon is 100% RoHS Compliant and lead free. No other microcontroller on the market has made this claim - meaning they use cheaper components (for higher profits) at the cost of our environment!


I've got to say, that's some pretty low-brow stuff there.  Seeing that you're willing to make incorrect and baseless slanderous claims about others to promote your own product makes me lose respect for you.

1) There are quite a few RoHS-compliant boards out there.  Saying that no other microcontroller on the market has made this claim is completely false.  Just one example.  Or do you think Sparkfun is lying?  The Basic Stamp2 is RoHS compliant, as is the Propeller.

2) Failing to meet RoHS compliancy in no way means that cheaper components were used.  It might be something as simple as using leaded solder because lead-free solder does not work as well in their manufacturing process, leading to lower-quality boards with higher failure rates over time.  For example, all of the components on the Orangutan robot controllers are RoHS compliant, but the solder paste used in manufacturing is not as leaded solder yields better results.

3) Furthermore, if some company does use cheaper, non-RoHS components, you have no way of knowing that that is leading to higher profits.  What if they're spending less on components so they can offer the boards for less to their customers in a country where people realize that the environmental impact of traces of lead in circuitboards is negligible at best?

A respectable disclaimer, in line with what you see from other respectable companies, would have been:

Quote
The Axon is 100% RoHS Compliant and lead free.


Your disclaimer looks like it should also say something about how, unlike your competition, no puppies were murdered in the creation of your product, and it makes me wonder about the accuracy of the rest of the claims you make.

- Ben

Offline AdminTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #201 on: June 08, 2008, 10:19:54 PM »
Quote
I've got to say, that's some pretty low-brow stuff there.  Seeing that you're willing to make incorrect and baseless slanderous claims about others to promote your own product makes me lose respect for you.

Sorry, wasn't meant to be slanderous . . . I've removed that claim. Just know that everything I say and do is done to the best of my knowledge with best intentions.

So where'd I go wrong? I looked at the websites of all the main comparable microcontroller manufacturers 6 months ago, and none of them made the claim on their sites that I could find. So I looked really hard just now and here are my results:

Arduino apparently made the claim hidden deep in their forum . . . can't seem to find it anywhere else . . .

Parallax, Olimex, and Gumstix makes it obvious . . . I missed it, my fault :-\
(perhaps they changed their site since, but thats no excuse, that was 6 months ago and I should have checked again)

As for orangutan . . . I can't find any RoHS claim on their site . . . but if lead is used in the solder paste, I don't consider it RoHS compliant . . . and when making the Axon, I got a quote for leaded solder and its definitely cheaper :P

PICAXE, although RoHS according to sparkfun, makes no RoHS claim at all on their site that I can find.

Wiring makes the claim, but its mentioned only once deep within the documentation . . . no green leaf pic :P

I didn't however think to look at retailer sites like Sparkfun . . . lesson learned! I actually feel a bit stupid now for not thinking of this . . .

This is one reason I haven't made the specs/documentation public outside of this thread. This is why I also haven't officially begun to accept orders yet. Not even those who reserved have had a chance to make a purchase yet. I'm sure I still have mistakes in it, and I'm confident you guys will find more. I'm making corrections almost daily to it . . . It hurts my ego occasionally, but its better for you guys to bring stuff up like this. I'm only human! :P

Besides, if I lie, you guys are smart and numerous enough catch me on it . . . and the forum to tell everyone . . . its in my best interest to be honest! ;D

And being wrong is embarrasing, and damages my 'street cred' . . . its in my interest to verify/check my claims . . . I'll try harder in the future . . .

Quote
3) Furthermore, if some company does use cheaper, non-RoHS components, you have no way of knowing that that is leading to higher profits.  What if they're spending less on components so they can offer the boards for less to their customers in a country where people realize that the environmental impact of traces of lead in circuitboards is negligible at best?

This is more of an economics argument . . . but I'll explain what I was thinking at the time . . . given a hypothetical fixed supply and demand, lower prices mean higher sales. But of course, this supply-demand curve has an unknown slope, and isn't perfect because of semi-competing products from other companies. If the prices drop faster than the sales (slope dependent), then it could actually result in a loss of profit . . . Its more likely to lead to higher profits, but isn't guarenteed like you point out . . . And like you said, how much does RoHS compliance mean to customers? I'm not sure myself . . .


hoping I partly redeemed myself . . . :-\

Offline dunk

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,086
  • Helpful? 21
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #202 on: June 09, 2008, 07:55:06 AM »
Quote
So where'd I go wrong? I looked at the websites of all the main comparable microcontroller manufacturers 6 months ago, and none of them made the claim on their sites that I could find.
so it was only in the last year or so that RoHS became a legal requirement in the EU (i cant remember the exact date).
it's possible you looked before this date.

most of the equipment manufacturers i deal with at work are only concerned with RoHS because of the legal implications.
i'd imagine microcontroller manufacturers are the same.

i believe RoHS compliance is not a legal requirement in the rest of the world as yet but is quickly becoming the minimum standard in any company who wants to export to the EU.

i have encountered a few equipment vendors who still supply 2 versions of equipment, the RoHS one being the (more expensive) EU version.
this appears to be due to the difficulty of changing their manufacturing processes in time for the EU legislation.
there were certainly a few pieces of equipment at work we had trouble finding RoHS versions of for a while.


dunk.

Offline AdminTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #203 on: June 14, 2008, 07:22:29 PM »
My manufacturer finished the boards yesterday. They sent me a few images (one attached), and it looks perfect. I should get them in my mail sometime this week hopefully. I'll need an extra day to add the final touches and prepare shipping. For those who reserved, I'll be sending out an email in the next few days.

As for the documentation, its mostly done.
http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon/

Its missing a few things, like: a demo video, source code, external component libraries (Blackfin, sharp IR, digital compass, etc). I'll be adding these soon. Just putting the final touches on it all . . .


Quote
1. How does this controller compare and contrast to Robonova's MR-C3024? As in price and features?

The Axon has more ADC, more UART, more timers, more PWM, more servo ports. The Axon doesn't have a buzzer. The MR-C3024 doesn't have USB. Just google it up for details.

Quote
2. How does the Blackfin camera work with conjuction to the Axon? Does it receive an image, process it and then feed information on objects it recognizes back to the Axon or does it work in another way?

The Blackfin does *ALL* image processing. The Axon just requests the final desired results.

Quote
3. Would I be able to hook up some sort of LCD to the Axon for display of text, images or video from the camera?

Yeap, any LCD that uses UART serial takes seconds to add to the Axon.

Quote
4. Why didnt you choose to interface the CMUCam3 with it? Can't that one recognize faces and whatnot?

I almost did, but the Mr. Howard offered to work closely with me to use the Blackfin instead. He's been really really supportive, and the features/price of his camera were very attractive. I might still add a CMUcam (the original) library, but unlikely right now. He is currently adding a shape recognition algorithm. I requested face detection, but that probably won't happen soon.

Quote
5. Is it possible to attach different camera systems onto the Axon? Or is it only made for the Blackfin?

If it has serial, it can be added to the Axon. The Axon wasn't designed to process images however, so your camera should do the processing onboard.

Offline Maltaeron

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #204 on: June 15, 2008, 03:49:42 PM »
Its funny, no matter how much I seem to think that I don't need that many features, its just getting really, really tempting...

I applaud you admin! This is totally the thing I might try to do if only I had any clue were to start! ...but now that its done, why bother?

=]

Offline shlodo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Helpful? 0
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #205 on: June 16, 2008, 03:20:49 AM »
sounds great... I like that it has heaps of outputs and u have to ever expanding builder in mind. I want to buy 1 board that will last for ages and allow me to keep adding things as I learn.

What kind of language will it be?

Count me down for one for sure!

Offline AdminTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #206 on: June 17, 2008, 09:12:48 AM »
Bllaaaahhhh my manufacturer lied . . . they still haven't shipped anything . . . oh well!

Now they say they will ship it tomorrow, meaning I probably won't get the boards till early next week :-\

I guess that gives me more time to perfect the code . . . I would have had the code up by now but my social life has been more exciting than usual :P

Offline airman00

  • Contest Winner
  • Supreme Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,653
  • Helpful? 21
  • narobo.com
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #207 on: June 17, 2008, 09:23:45 AM »
awww

whatever , next week is good


 but my social life has been more exciting than usual :P

Robotics does get all the girls..  ;)
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline gamefreak

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 543
  • Helpful? 2
  • Robo-Enthusiast
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #208 on: June 18, 2008, 09:07:25 PM »
lol, only when it works, and only some girls like scars, none of the ones I know do, tis a shame, scars up and down my right arm and right leg, now if only I could put myself in the situiation of a high tension wire when it snaps, I want a scar the spirals down my arm.....
All hail Rodney, the holy 555 timer
And Steve said: "Let there be lead!"

Offline Gertlex

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
  • Helpful? 23
  • Nuclear Engineer Roboticist
Re: SoR annoucement: microcontroller product
« Reply #209 on: June 19, 2008, 08:06:46 AM »
Robotics does get all the girls..  ;)

It gets all the *%(@ing insane ones.  And occasionally the normal-ish ones too.
I

 


Get Your Ad Here