Author Topic: Water Repeler  (Read 9152 times)

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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Water Repeler
« on: January 21, 2008, 08:30:49 PM »
I was reading about Tesla and was wondering if it is possible to repel water using high voltage  or ions of some sort? Any other ideas?
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Offline Trumpkin

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 08:34:08 PM »
yep have you ever tried combing your hair and then holding the come next to running water? (the water bends) So I'm assuming that you can repel water with high voltages.
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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 08:42:17 PM »
yes but how would i recreate the repelling in an electronic circuit?

would it be the static electricity, which can be recreated using a van de graaf generator or is it like a high voltage lifter(which works)  , like  tesla made
http://tesladownunder.com/Lifters.htm#Lifters%204%2080kV
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Offline Trumpkin

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 08:43:13 PM »
what kind of application are you using this for?
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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 08:44:55 PM »
***TOP SECRET ***

Sorry I cannot reveal the application ... yet . But is related to robotics

but how on earth can i repel the water???
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Offline ed1380

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 09:07:27 PM »
oil? or does it have to be electric?
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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 09:40:55 PM »
OK guys


I've been researching it and came across the Kelvin thunderstorm, very cool stuff ( google it)

Now i have some ideas how to make it disperse water like that on a flat surface ( meaning without the water passing through any cans ) just repelling straight off the metallic surface.

Anybody have a way to do this ?


p.s. im sorry i can't reveal the application and details, but I promise I will reveal everything once I am permitted to . And ill post documentation if it works
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2008, 02:40:29 AM »
maybe a tesla coil outputting onto a metal plate or a cage instead of a torroid as usual

Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 06:56:25 AM »
well this is what I have to do in order to repel water


Make water a positive ion ( or negative one )  by attracting the electrons to a positively charged object
Make the metallic surface negatively charged , so it repels the water ions away


Now the 2nd step is easy to do , there are negative voltage pumps   but the 1st step has got me puzzled , since how can I do both steps on a flat surface? Maybe switch off , positive charge surface , then negative charge, etc.


@paulstreats    - I can do that , but what basis is there for that .I have never used a tesla coil and do not know the details about how it works. Would you know about it enough to explain why it owuld repel water ,  ( im searching google also.......)

Thanks,
Eric
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2008, 07:42:21 AM »
I believe the water repellent basis is due to the fact that water auto ionises and gains a negative charge. When faced with another negative charge such as a static build up, they oppose each other and the water will be forced to move. Also electricity can have the same effect if applied correctly as can electro - magnetic energy.

You might want to look at using electro magnetic energy like having a negative charged pole to deflect water - for safety purposes. (if the water is ionised then it is capable of electrical transfer)

Offline Trumpkin

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2008, 09:07:50 AM »
I say go with a van de graff generator or atleast try it there is a book called gonzo gizmos    that has instructions on how to make a homemade one.
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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 09:13:48 AM »
but does statis electricity repel or attract water?
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Offline Trumpkin

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2008, 09:20:00 AM »
well ummm i'm pretty sure it will repel the water can tell for sure though  :-[.
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 09:29:46 AM »
It depends. If it is ionised in such a way as the hydrogen become isotopes (deuterium i think off the top of my head) then the water will have a net positive charge so that it will be attracted by the net negative pull of the static electricity. If it is ionised in such a way as to produce a greater electron mass then the water will become negatively charged and be repelled by a negative static electricity.

I believe that the auto ionising effect of water produces negative ions, but it depends wether water will be charged enough to allow the repulsion system to work effectively.

Its been a long time since ive done any chemistry type stuff, so you wight want to research a bit more since the problem is to do with the actual water molecular make up. most water isnt just h2o since the auto ionisation produces something like h3 ho ? a triple hydrogen molecule and a hydroxide molecule? its these that will determine its ionisation status
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 09:34:50 AM by paulstreats »

Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 09:40:01 AM »
hmmm


well the problem now is how to "shoot" electrons at the water . Kind of like those cathode rays. Any other ways to do it?
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2008, 10:06:20 AM »
i would imagine that running electricity through it would deposit extra electrons

Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2008, 10:31:10 AM »
running electricity through the water?


hmmm

I need to have a flat surface that repels water as it falls onto it. So im thinking have cathode rays on the surface at angles that hit the water with electrons, and then have the flat surface negatively charged ( with van de graaf of just a negative voltage pump)

would that work or is there a better way
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Offline Admin

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2008, 10:35:34 AM »
What exactly are you repelling water from?

Remember that extremely high voltages near your microcontroller will never end well . . .

Thinking outside the box . . . have you considered maybe air jets or hydrophobic creams?

Offline paulstreats

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2008, 10:39:47 AM »
i dont think that cathode rays will work since they dissipate and diffuse through the air. Thats why crt monitors and t.v.s have a vaccuum tube so theres no air to interact with

Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2008, 10:48:05 AM »
What exactly are you repelling water from?

Remember that extremely high voltages near your microcontroller will never end well . . .

Thinking outside the box . . . have you considered maybe air jets or hydrophobic creams?

I've considered air jets but I want to do this electrically , if possible
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Offline bukowski

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2008, 11:22:56 AM »
Quote
A Reversibly Switching Surface
Joerg Lahann,1 Samir Mitragotri,2 Thanh-Nga Tran,1 Hiroki Kaido,1 Jagannathan Sundaram,2 Insung S. Choi,1* Saskia Hoffer,3 Gabor A. Somorjai,3 Robert Langer1

We report the design of surfaces that exhibit dynamic changes in interfacial properties, such as wettability, in response to an electrical potential. The change in wetting behavior was caused by surface-confined, single-layered molecules undergoing conformational transitions between a hydrophilic and a moderately hydrophobic state. Reversible conformational transitions were confirmed at a molecular level with the use of sum-frequency generation spectroscopy and at a macroscopic level with the use of contact angle measurements. This type of surface design enables amplification of molecular-level conformational transitions to macroscopic changes in surface properties without altering the chemical identity of the surface. Such reversibly switching surfaces may open previously unknown opportunities in interfacial engineering.

1 Department of Chemical Engineering, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), 45 Carleton Street, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
2 Department of Chemical Engineering, University of California at Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, CA 93106, USA.
3 Department of Chemistry, University of California at Berkeley, Material Science Division, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA.
*   Present address: Department of Chemistry and School of Molecular Science (BK21), Korean Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, Daejeon 305-701, Korea.


Basically, they were able to repel water on a gold plate by inducing a switching electrical charge. Beyond that, I dont know how they did it or how much it was really able to repel...
Depending on how much power you have to work with, it might be easier to try to break the covalent bonds of the water.
Or use a water resistant surface at an angle, so it will just flow off.

Offline Trumpkin

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2008, 11:54:56 AM »
Why not just build a metal angle over what ever you don't want to get wet, why does this have to be electrical? It is really hard to help you when we don't know what you're going to be doing with this.
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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 11:59:03 AM »
lol

I want to have a metallic plate that repels the water ( its not to protect electronics)

Now I could use air jets to blow the water to the sides , but I think it can be done electrically just like in the Kelvin's Thunderstorm experiment you could "split the water" from a stream to a wide spray . Now using this idea , I could have shoot electrons from teh side somehow and have the surface repel it . Or perhaps have the sides attract the water to give the illusion of the water being repelled from the surface.

Then how can  I attract water ? static electricity?
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Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2008, 11:59:48 AM »
A MIT professor demonstrating Kelvin's Thunderstorm
[youtube]F5PvIPgJGx0[/youtube]
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2008, 12:43:12 PM »
A way to split the water into a spray is literally let it fall onto tesla coil sparks, or marxs generator outputs. I believe that this would superheat the water causing the air (and water) to expand dramatically converting the water into a mist / spray

Offline airman00Topic starter

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Re: Water Repeler
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2008, 12:47:01 PM »
yes but thats also extremley dangerous!


any idea where I can get some high power , waterproof air jets > Or how I can waterproof an airjet?
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