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Author Topic: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...  (Read 7661 times)

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Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« on: March 24, 2008, 10:55:47 AM »
Hello to everyone,
and thanks in advance...

Since I have tried many times with google and I was out of lack... I decided to "beg" (lol) for an answear...
I have many Li ion batteries from cell phones, mostly from Sony Ericsson...
Has anyone tried to use 'em, you know, recharge, protection, and all that staff...
I'm asking because Cell phone batteries are packs... meaning that they already have some electronics on them but I don't know what???
Protection, charger, amber limiter... Also what is this sense pin in the middle... It must not be there for decoration....

Please help, I really hate to rip 'em apart...

Thanks again,
Lefteris
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline AndrewM

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 03:40:37 PM »
The "extra" electronics in the batteries are probably part of a balancer circuit (EDIT: or a protection circuit), but seeing as I don't have spec sheets and have never ripped one apart that is just my best guess.  Charging the packs could be done with a Lipo/li-ion battery charger using a charge setting below the given mAh for the battery.  The catch is if the extra circuitry is part of a balancer you need to use one style of charger, if it is not you use a different type.  Mischarging a li-ion pack could mean a fairly damaging KA-BOOM.

You are better off not using those batteries..
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 03:42:47 PM by AndrewM »
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Offline ed1380

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 03:46:35 PM »
email sony for help?
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click here. http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 04:20:19 PM »
The "extra" electronics in the batteries are probably part of a balancer circuit (EDIT: or a protection circuit), but seeing as I don't have spec sheets and have never ripped one apart that is just my best guess.  Charging the packs could be done with a Lipo/li-ion battery charger using a charge setting below the given mAh for the battery.  The catch is if the extra circuitry is part of a balancer you need to use one style of charger, if it is not you use a different type.  Mischarging a li-ion pack could mean a fairly damaging KA-BOOM.

You are better off not using those batteries..

Hep, I heard this before not messing with this batteries... But still they look very pretty. The thing is that if I rip them up... Inside it's the cell and some kind of electronics... I can leave without the electronics... For many batteries it's a temperature prop...
The battery I have in front of me is a Sony Ericsson BST - 37 if this can help any one...

Thanks for the reply!!!
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 04:25:38 PM »
email sony for help?

I haven't really tried this... think they will help... since I'm only a school student not university etc... I don't think I'll get a descent answer...
But I'll try...
Please can you be more specific where... tech support for mobile, products... I searched for datasheets but nowhere to be found....
I 'm also waiting some samples from Dallas... Some Li+ ion chargers (I have Lipo battery... but I only hope it doesn't matter...)

Thanks for your reply, too!!!

I really hate just seeing them sitting around, aging (they are Li+ .......) without being used...
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline Admin

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2008, 02:38:26 PM »
I suspect cellphone batteries can't supply very much current, considering how little cell phones use!

Probably wouldn't be worth it for a robot with motors . . .

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 04:47:03 PM »
Agreed... I don't need them for a robot... but powering up electronics... especially I design a tachometer and speed 'o' meter for my bike and
I need something neat... NiMh can be heavy for a bike... (mountain bike...)

It's easy to buy one... yes... but I want some more reading like temp, time and humidity...
I'm kinda interested in sports, I've been riding my bike for some time now... but I need to go ride some mountain roads...
Anyways, here in Greece is more dangerous to ride in the city rather than on the mountains...

Well... it seems almost noone knows... that's a pity... Never mind...
BTW what if I get the cell by destroying the pack and then use it alone?

Anyways, thanks for the help...
Hope you come up with anything...

Lefteris
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline superchiku

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 06:18:38 AM »
i have tried using cell phone batteries bfore but they are only dependable in powering small chips and all , and i guess u need to use 2 batteries coz a single one will only give u 3.7v ..

oh i was talking abt the new brand of cellphone batteries , ihave got no idea abt the old ones
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Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 06:36:22 AM »
Yep, I'm talking about them too, only need to power some electronics, perhaps an LCD but no more than these...

I also have new Li+Po batteries...

Please can you tell me more...


Thanks, in advance
Lefteris, Greece
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline superchiku

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 07:05:19 AM »
Li-ion batteries will work well with lcd's , dont forget ur mobile phone has a big lcd screen powered by ur li-ion battery
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 12:24:45 PM »
How you used 'em???
That's the point!!!! :o
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline superchiku

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 01:25:08 PM »
u never played with lcd's bfore ,i have got a schematic which shows how to attach a lcd with an atmega16 ,32 ,

if it will work for u then ill send them to u
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline michaelsane

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 03:43:02 PM »
I noticed you mentioned the Dallas Lion charger ic's.  All the ic's do is regulate voltage and current, mostly using linear regulators.  If you are comfortable with building your own charger not based around a particular LiPo IC then I suggest you use switching regulators so you can achieve a more efficient charge (not super important if you are charging from the wall, but for solar applications it is essential).  The voltage for the battery should be charged at what ever the rating is on the battery (usually 4.2v), and the charge current should not exceed 1C unless specified by the manufacturer.  A 1C charge rate means that if the battery was 1500mah, then you are only charging it at a max of 1500ma.  Failure to regulate current and voltage can lead to fire, so be careful!  Lots of hobbiests' charge their LiPo's in ammo cannisters for this reason. 

The electronics in the batteries could also contain the circuits for the vibrate motor(s) as these are usually found in the battery pack

Offline ed1380

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 07:14:33 PM »
if you want to charge them you could check this out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97238

maybe reverse engineer it to find out how to use the pack?
Problems making the $50 robot circuit board?
click here. http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 04:06:33 PM »
if you want to charge them you could check this out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97238

maybe reverse engineer it to find out how to use the pack?


While, that's very nice... still I lack the money to buy this. (live in Greece postage and so on)
And I'm not willing to buy any charger cause they are TOO expensive for me. Look I'm running on pocket money...
So I'm only willing on building something myself...

Thanks for suggestion and interest anyway...
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2008, 04:16:39 PM »
I noticed you mentioned the Dallas Lion charger ic's.  All the ic's do is regulate voltage and current, mostly using linear regulators.  If you are comfortable with building your own charger not based around a particular LiPo IC then I suggest you use switching regulators so you can achieve a more efficient charge (not super important if you are charging from the wall, but for solar applications it is essential).  The voltage for the battery should be charged at what ever the rating is on the battery (usually 4.2v), and the charge current should not exceed 1C unless specified by the manufacturer.  A 1C charge rate means that if the battery was 1500mah, then you are only charging it at a max of 1500ma.  Failure to regulate current and voltage can lead to fire, so be careful!  Lots of hobbiests' charge their LiPo's in ammo cannisters for this reason. 

The electronics in the batteries could also contain the circuits for the vibrate motor(s) as these are usually found in the battery pack

Well, to tell you the truth since I have learned who to communicate via 1-wire I loved Dallas products, and since most of them are free for me via free samples... The only pay back I can give is tutorials on their products anyway...

Now, I'm only willing to help my pack survive and enjoy it's power capacity... not really interested on solar charging and so on...
Many charger and protector IC's from Dallas, are considered good for my job... but they are based on pure Li+ ion or Li+Po while cell phone batteries come in packs...
I recently ripped one pack to get the cell from the inside... And I do expect to use... Since Li+ion packs are so sensitive how can I do the wiring.... I just need to ask before get straight in soldering them... and If something happens like fire, which is most common... I've heard water in not the option...


Thanks again for the interest...
Lefteris, Greece
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline BANE

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2008, 06:30:45 PM »
if you want to charge them you could check this out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97238

maybe reverse engineer it to find out how to use the pack?


couldn't you just use a cell phone charger?

And i have two 4.5vdc 600mA Li-ion batteries from some old cell phones, if you could hook them up right couldn't you get 9vdc 1200mA?
Bane

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2008, 12:05:55 AM »
if you want to charge them you could check this out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97238

maybe reverse engineer it to find out how to use the pack?


couldn't you just use a cell phone charger?

And i have two 4.5vdc 600mA Li-ion batteries from some old cell phones, if you could hook them up right couldn't you get 9vdc 1200mA?
Bane



No no no no... It's not that simple with Li+ion... and when hooking batteries, you either get more capacity or voltage, not both... :D

Cheers, Lefteris...
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

Cheers!

Offline michaelsane

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2008, 12:09:58 AM »
You can connect the batteries in series as long as the cells are identical.  Another thing you need to take into consideration with LIPO batteries is pack balancing, so that each cell has the same voltage.  When the voltage difference between the batteries is less than 1 volt you can balance the pack by connecting the batteries in parallel. 

Offline Admin

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Re: Li+ion - Cell phone battery - How to use...
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2008, 01:39:26 PM »
Just a note . . . charging Li-Po in series is much safer than parallel -> it guarentees each cell gets an equal amount of current.

In parallel, current differences between cells causes the fires.

 


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