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Author Topic: Contribution Of SOR  (Read 4330 times)

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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Contribution Of SOR
« on: March 25, 2008, 06:48:42 AM »
How many of u think that SOR has done great things for the world to make life easier for young robotists

If u do then plzz tell how can we make this site better and more informative for upcoming newcomers...
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline cooldog

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2008, 03:05:10 PM »
admin could send you a gift basket ::)

robot will rule the world and i will be building them
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Offline benji

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2008, 04:07:53 PM »
Quote
If u do then plzz tell how can we make this site better and more informative for upcoming newcomers...

loading it up with tutors,,, anyone who makes a good tutor should have a medal or somthin
good ol' BeNNy

Offline Asellith

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2008, 07:42:55 PM »
Write tutorials on EVERYTHING. Detailed descriptions of interfaces, how to use a type of microcontroller, how to turn a laptop into a robot, how to convert your kitchen sink into a fusion generator that will power the world. Whatever just write nice and detailed tutorials with lots of pictures for those of us to lazy to read a lot :)
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Offline AndrewM

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2008, 09:25:33 PM »
how to convert your kitchen sink into a fusion generator that will power the world.

The NSA keeps deleting my write up of that  ;D
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 06:41:15 AM »
I hope the Admin really writes some advanced tutorials abt robotics

JAYDEEP ...

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Offline jman571

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 08:07:26 AM »
Well I could say writing more idiot-proof step-by-step guides on building a particular robot, with loads of pictures and stuff, I think some of the fun, and more importantly learning, comes from reading over most of the tutorials, which contain the knowledge you need in bits and parts, and then taking all that knowledge and using it to complete your project.

If my remote control bot is sucessful I'd consider making a detailed remote control bot tutorial, but it would probably not show up until late june, if not until after the summer.

Offline vidam

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2008, 08:12:18 AM »


I think the fun is in solving problem independently. I don't believe in copying exactly what someone else has done. I admit that I've used the SOR tutorials to get myself familiar on a subject. But then I realized later that solving problems is what an engineer does and likes to do. So just copying what someone else has done takes away some creativity that I would have thought about normally on my own.


Offline Fredrik Andersson

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2008, 03:08:34 AM »
Well I could say writing more idiot-proof step-by-step guides on building a particular robot, with loads of pictures and stuff, I think some of the fun, and more importantly learning, comes from reading over most of the tutorials, which contain the knowledge you need in bits and parts, and then taking all that knowledge and using it to complete your project.

You couldn't have said it better!

Anyway, we are already on the track, aren't we? I mean, all the new tutorials from the competition. Isn't that the exact way on how to contribute to the site (besides being active on the forums of course)?
Current project: Pirrh - Portable Intelligent Round Rolling Hexapod

Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 04:46:27 AM »
thats the thing i also wrote abt earlier ... the admin should stop spoon feeding us with prewritten codes and header files and give newcomers an indepth coverage of the subject so that they can make the code themselves rather than just copying wats written earlier.
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline AndrewM

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2008, 06:17:30 AM »
thats the thing i also wrote abt earlier ... the admin should stop spoon feeding us with prewritten codes and header files and give newcomers an indepth coverage of the subject so that they can make the code themselves rather than just copying wats written earlier.

Spoon feeding code does help a lot of people learn.  It gives people something they know works, so if there is a problem they aren't running directly into a brick wall of not knowing which part of their robot failed.  Once they have the spoon fed portion working, they can explorer the code (and electronics) and modify it to learn more.  All the commands for a given programming language are generally available in datasheets from manufacturers, so advancing beyond the basics just becomes a matter of learning what commands do what.
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 09:49:14 AM »
i understand what u mean but its upto the person himself to decide if he goes into the depths of the subject
For example-

i have seen ppl who have built bots but dont know a thing abt programming coz they just copy the codes and modify it in some ways, but they are unabe to write their own... so wats the use then???
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline AndrewM

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 10:43:00 AM »
i have seen ppl who have built bots but dont know a thing abt programming coz they just copy the codes and modify it in some ways, but they are unabe to write their own... so wats the use then???

1) They built a robot.
2) Most higher level robotics projects consists of teams of engineers specializing in each facet of robot building.  One person might only design the chassis, another creates the sensor layout and schematics, another creates the drive train, another creates the brainboard and lastly a seperate person programs it.  So what if the people who built those robots can't code, they still built a robot.
3) Beam robots require no programming, they are still robots.  Fuzzy neuronets created using only transistor logic circuits require no programming, but they are still robots.
4) Without that spoon fed code, building guidelines and schematics to start 99% of us on the track to robots, there would be no hobby level robotics and no Society of Robots.  Some people will take what they learn and expand on it, some will be happy with the simple $50 robot without any changes.  Either way, they still built a robot.
5) Just on a programming level, learning each facet of different techniques takes months and years.  Take for example voice recognition.  There are entire industries devoted to that one single programming piece, and learning the theory, teaching yourself the code that goes with that theory  I would estimate at 6 months of near full time work to tackle from start to "working" if you go from scratch.  Or we can beg airman00 who has learned it already to spend the time to write a spoon fed tutorial so we can then expand on what he has done, and spend the next 6 months working on something else.
6) Maybe one of those people who went through the step by step instructions and did not deviate, but completed their robot does nothing further with it than perhaps show a friend.  Maybe that friend gets interested because of that robot created by spoon feeding and is the person who creates the first truly human level artificially intelligent robot.  Without that simple robot we might never know.
7) Lastly, they built a robot.  And for every robot built by someone out there, the hobby and the field grow.  And with that growth comes lower prices (don't ask what I used to pay for an assorted bag of photoresistors; when I could find them that is; or the cost of a simple IR transmitter and receiver).  That growth also will get companies and industries more interested in robotics, expanding the field.  It is a cascading effect.

There's 7 "uses" for spoon feeding code, as well as schematics and construction ;D
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2008, 07:36:41 AM »
 ;D nice reply , we need more spoon feeding then
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline AndrewM

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2008, 08:15:59 AM »
lol

Actually we need both spoon feeding and theory.  By theory I mean what you were referring to, the underlying principles and walking a person through the thought process rather than just giving the solution.  Admin's tutorials are some of the few that I have seen out there that cover both.  He gives you the theory of why something is the way it is while presenting the practical solution.

H-Bridges and mosfets are a good example of the need for both.  I can whip together an H-Bridge in no time because I have the schematics pretty much memorized, but despite having a solid electronics background I still have to look up (and often forget about entirely) the load placement of P-type vs N-type transistors/fets when I only need a single direction for a motor/actuator.

So in answer to your original question, I think we need more of what Admin has already given us from the user community.  A good balance of spoon fed samples combined with the whys and hows that are the reason it works.

One change I would like to see to the site itself is a better categorization for the user tutorials that more follows Admin's tutorials.  So like when I go into the user tutorial section on the main site I get a break down of the type of tutorial presented (Electronics, Constructions, Algorythms, etc), and further break down inside each section by tutorial title.  Even though the current design layout reflects this, it has a very cluttered feel to it, where I personally don't get an idea of what I will be looking at when I click a user tutorial.  Instead I often search elsewhere, or even a google search which might just lead me back to one of the user tutorials that has the info I was looking for but I couldn't tell from the title/section combination.  If that makes any sense.
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2008, 06:36:59 AM »
user tutorials really make a healthy addition to the site but still all things have flaws....

it's upto u where u look in  ::)
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline AndrewM

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2008, 07:09:49 AM »
This question is more towards Admin, but what about a wiki style user contribution section?  It seems wiki has mastered the art of subject breakdowns with user entered information.  Perhaps not something that is completely open for edit and change, but limited to those who have member section accounts.

Would this be plausible?  Would this be desireable?
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2008, 01:12:54 PM »
heyy dont compare wikipedia with societyofrobots

COZ WIKI IS WIKI AND... SOR IS SOR

SO ITS BEST THAT THEY HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES WHICH MAKE THEM UNIQUE
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline AndrewM

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2008, 01:44:07 PM »
heyy dont compare wikipedia with societyofrobots

COZ WIKI IS WIKI AND... SOR IS SOR

SO ITS BEST THAT THEY HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES WHICH MAKE THEM UNIQUE

I was referring the the wiki style of articles: search features, topic breakdown, etc.  For instance, for the "You Design It" hoverbot, the first part of it is designing and constructing the frame.  The frame I am doing with carbon fiber, mostly because of the "tech" look that carbon fiber has.  So within the tutorial I will writeup for the hoverbot, under construction there might be a link to a user(or Admin) written Google SketchUp tutorial as part of the why I designed the structure a certain way.  This would be followed by the section where I construct the base frame that would include the link to the carbon fiber tutorial.  On and on.

The idea being that if a user wants to see how to work with carbon fiber, the tutorial wouldn't be buried as part of a larger tutorial with an obscure name such as "You Design It Hoverbot".  It would be a seperate searchable tutorial, that is referenced from within the actual robot tutorial.  Right now there is an incomplete user tutorial on a 4 rotor helicopter.  The section that is written up only covers winding brushless motors.  Now if you wanted to look for how to wind a brushless motor, would your inclination be to look in a helicopter tutorial?  On that same subject, with a breakdown like that other users could expand on what is there in seperate articles, such as different methods of image detection and manipulation, or even complete an article like the helicopter one without stepping on toes, because there would currently be no helicopter tutorial, just a tutorial on winding brushless motors.

I haven't looked, but judging by the number of websites out there that make use of the wiki article format I figure there is likely a free wiki web-app to do this.
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2008, 01:47:27 PM »
well friend , I understand what u are saying but what can we do...

it just works out this way
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline Admin

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2008, 03:07:04 PM »
Quote
This question is more towards Admin, but what about a wiki style user contribution section?

wikis, like with wikipedia, holds a little information about a lot of subjects. Wiki is great for the masses.

SoR however is a lot of specialized/detailed information about only a few subjects. The forum + member tutorials is better for a small niche group like us (at least thats my current opinion of the matter).

Plus, wiki's have security issues and require professional editors (wikipedia claims to have 50k of them) - too much trouble for me. What I like about the member tutorials is that it isn't anonymous - people can determine how reliable information is by who posts a tutorial. And comments can be posted for suggested corrections.

As for spoon feeding . . . I don't feel I do that. No one that has built the $50 Robot will say they didn't learn tons of new skills - soldering being the #1 skill many have learned from it, despite me not saying how to do it. And if you look at my robots page, you will see that nothing is spoon fed. I mostly just post pics, theory, parts list, and at times unexplained source code - but never instructions. ;D

Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2008, 03:14:50 PM »
AND THATS THE PART I LIKED ABT UR TUTORIALS...

by spoon feeding i meant how u supplied all the codes and all for all kinds of bots, i recommend somthings should be left to do by the builder himself like the programming, offcourse u can supply the header files and all  but the real coding should be done by the builder himself for his knowledge only ...

AND WHO SAID THAT PPL DONT LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE TUTORIALS ,I just meant that 80 % of the work can be done by the admin but live the 20 % for the builder , right now i would say that u leave only a mere 5 % of the work to be done for the builder the rest of it is done by u only...
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline airman00

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2008, 04:09:12 PM »
AND THATS THE PART I LIKED ABT UR TUTORIALS...

by spoon feeding i meant how u supplied all the codes and all for all kinds of bots, i recommend somthings should be left to do by the builder himself like the programming, offcourse u can supply the header files and all  but the real coding should be done by the builder himself for his knowledge only ...

AND WHO SAID THAT PPL DONT LEARN ANYTHING FROM THE TUTORIALS ,I just meant that 80 % of the work can be done by the admin but live the 20 % for the builder , right now i would say that u leave only a mere 5 % of the work to be done for the builder the rest of it is done by u only...

people have to be spoon fed at first
after building two or three robots entirely based on spoon fed material , then they can start building their own robots b/c by now they understand whats happening
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Offline Asellith

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2008, 04:12:42 PM »
The goal of the tutorials is to help people learn. That is why we have specific tutorials on things like I2C, UART and others that help out when people don't know how to do something. I have never copied code into one of my designs or programs that worked without me understanding it first. Maybe I just code different (which is highly likely) but I have to dissect the code in order to use it. Things like the code for the $50 robot is designed to just be loaded onto the bot by the newbie builder and then in a few short hours and 50 bucks they have tasted what it means to be a robot builder. With that small sample of victory then the bug gets them and they want to make it do more stuff. Then comes the learning part. If you want to learn to code then read a lot of books and write a tutorial for the next guy. Each advanced topic should have its own tutorial the more people writing the more people can learn. As for programming, PC programming and microcontroller programming are alike enough that if you want to know how to program google c or c++ tutorials and you'll have more then enough reading. We at SOR build robots not programs. There is a step between PC based stuff and microcontroller but it is a small one in my opinion of course the IT guys I know look at me funny when I explain it to them but the guys who write device driver know what I am talking about. basically we need more tutorials so grab something strange that noone has written about and read for about 3 weeks spend some cash and play around. Of course don't forget to write everything down. Oh and take pics people like pics
Jonathan Bowen
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Offline superchikuTopic starter

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2008, 01:12:07 AM »
yes iam gonna write some tutorials in avr programming in the member's tutorial section thats after i write my tutorial on making PCB's and after i compete for the 2008 $200 contest
JAYDEEP ...

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Offline benji

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Re: Contribution Of SOR
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2008, 03:41:58 PM »
hey folks i did write my mouse interface code,, i dont see my bots turnin to red  ;D
good ol' BeNNy

 


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