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Offline Rand alThorTopic starter

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OS?
« on: June 26, 2008, 04:51:12 PM »
What Operating System do you guys use? I know Windows is the most widespread, but do more poeple use Linux or Mac next? Thanks,

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Offline BANE

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Re: OS?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 05:26:45 PM »
I have Vista, and wouldn't recommand anyone else to get it :P.  Vista is nice as long as you just like to listen to music and look at pictures, but anything other your screwed.

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Offline emmannuel

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Re: OS?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 05:39:42 PM »
WinXP :D

Offline airman00

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Re: OS?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 06:29:54 PM »
Right now I dual boot Mac OSX and WindowsXP .
Mac for music, video, chatting,etc.  and WinXP for programming

I run Ubuntu on another desktop computer in the house and Vista on my butler robot's laptop
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Offline Rand alThorTopic starter

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Re: OS?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 07:19:08 PM »
Butler robot? Awesome!

But What the heck is Ubuntu? Does it run Win32 Programs?

Offline izua

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Re: OS?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2008, 09:19:55 PM »
winxp and debian. there's a part of a hdd where some pieces of slackware reside along some pieces of kubuntu. :P
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Offline airman00

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Re: OS?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 09:21:22 PM »
I'm writing a tutorial on the butler robot ( its in the members tutorials page right now)

Ubuntu is a linux distro , it could run windows programs through an emulator only . There are programs similar to windows programs that run on ubuntu. Plus ubuntu is free and fast and most programs are open source.
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


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Offline kf6snj

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Re: OS?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 11:23:21 PM »
I dual boot my computer with Puppy Linux and PCLinuxOS. I am also basing my robot project on a puppy. I stopped using windows back in 2002. I won't go back either.

Offline Fredrik Andersson

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Re: OS?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2008, 08:53:08 AM »
But What the heck is Ubuntu? Does it run Win32 Programs?

I'm running Ubuntu on my stationary computer, eeeXubuntu on my EEE PC and Debian Etch, yet another linux distro, on my single board computer which is the brain of my robot.

Yes! Ubuntu,. or linux in general can run Win32 programs, if you install wine on it. You can't really rely on it, many programs doesn't work, but what's funny is that some programs actually runs better!
Current project: Pirrh - Portable Intelligent Round Rolling Hexapod

Offline Rand alThorTopic starter

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Re: OS?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2008, 12:36:24 PM »
Sounds like a lot of people use some sort of (presumably) free Linux clone or such OS... doesn't anyone use good ol' Windows?

Offline benji

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Re: OS?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2008, 02:34:03 PM »
i do use vista ,, its fine when it comes to surfin the web
but i guess im gonna switch to linux  ;D
good ol' BeNNy

Offline Gertlex

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Re: OS?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2008, 02:58:16 PM »
You've got 4 people who said they use windows already, before you said "doesn't anyone".

Almost no one ever pays for a distro of Linux.

I use WinXP here.  Wouldn't want anything else.
I

Offline ahab

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Re: OS?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2008, 05:21:25 PM »
Debian Stable if I can, but some hardware is not supported so Debian Testing on one machine. 64 bit on most, 32 bit on the robot.

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 08:07:50 PM »
Debian Testing on my home computers and sometimes SLAX from a USB on my friends computers  :P
WindowsXP on my work laptop, and JD-OS on the actual products.
uCLinux or Open-Embedded (roll your own distro sytle of Linux) for my Gumstix, and FreeRTOS for ARMs and AVRs.

Offline Rand alThorTopic starter

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Re: OS?
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2008, 09:10:01 PM »
Quote
I use WinXP here.  Wouldn't want anything else.

Same here. But We just got a laptop with Vista Home Premium, and it is totally awesome. Haven't seen any problems yet.

But let me rephrase my question: What OS do you use and does it run Win32 Programs?

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2008, 09:33:41 PM »
On my WinXP laptop at work we make .NET programs that help our work (Ok so other people do that, I make  Perl scripts) other wise I don't touch MS stuff.

Offline airman00

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Re: OS?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2008, 09:59:57 PM »
well rand alThor your question has few possibilites for options

a. On any non-Windows OS, such as Linux or MacOSX,
   1. you can either run programs in a windows emulator ,like Wine , this will work for a lot of programs but not all of them and there are issues
    2. Run a compatible program in your OS , like Firefox can run on Windows and on MacOSX, and on Linux. There are different versions of it but all of them do basically the same thing.  Some programs can run in only Mac or in only Windows and do not have different versions for different OS .
b. You dual boot Windows and a non-windows operating system
    1. Then you boot into Windows and run windows programs in windows , and in the Non-Windows OS you dont use Windows programs
c. You dual boot different versions of Windows
    1. Just run a program on any of the versions
d. You run only Windows
   1. Obvious answer ......

About the whole OS  argument. This is what I feel:
 - Windows Vista is an amazing OS if all you want to do is go online, watch movies, play games, listen to music, and pictures . This is what average people do on their computers.  However if you want to program something on it or write some software , then you get some problems with compatibility  and thats no fun.
- Windows XP is probably the most stable version of Windows and can do everything and is a good OS to program on . Every computer hardware I've ever used has worked on XP. This is the best version of Windows out there .
- Mac OSX  is the best user-friendly OS and is very fast . Programming software to run on a mac is very good too. Most programming hardware and programming software  ( for microcontrollers) are not compatible with Mac OSX.
- All versions of Linux are very very very fast and programming software for it is the easiest since almost everything is open source . Programming hardware for microcontrollers is possible to do but sometimes it requires you to do some programming of your own in Linux to get the programmer to work. It is also a good OS to listen to music and all that other stuff that the average user does.

My solution to this whole mess: I dual boot Mac OSX and Windows XP. This allows me to benefit from Mac OSX's user friendly atmosphere and all of its superior programs , but also lets me benefit from Windows XP compatibility ( I use WinXP for all my programming needs)

I have run all of the above OS and chose MacOSX and WinXP in the end. In fact I run all of the mentioned programs even now. I personally run MacOSX and WinXP , but Chives( my robot) runs Vista, and my desktop runs Ubuntu.

Emulators are available for all of these systems but they do not run so well and have compatibility problems.
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


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Offline photray94

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Re: OS?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2008, 11:09:40 PM »
I use Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.3.  Still asking around what software I should use for my Atmel products.

Offline Tsukubadaisei

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Re: OS?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2008, 03:05:06 AM »
I run fedora 9(main), xp(solid works), osx86(hackintosh, but just for education. Lack of drives dont make it a good os for everyday use) and Aros(I like old-school amiga games) on my vaio laptop. And yellow dog 6 on my ps3. That is at home.
In the university I use red hat linux 9(very outdated, I hate it, but there are rumors that they will change the distro next year) and macosx tiger(10.4). They have xp but it is useless except for solid works.

When I used to live with my parents, I used to have an AmigaOS 3.9 that belonged to my father but it stopped working for unknown reasons :'(. It was my first computer.
A.I.(yes those are my initials)

Offline izua

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Re: OS?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2008, 04:00:43 AM »
why do you even care so much about windows programs?
there are equivalences for most of them, and some of them are even better. there are problem with drivers on linux distros, true, but you can't say vista doesn't have them, either :P
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Offline benji

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Re: OS?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2008, 07:12:44 AM »
Quote
I run fedora 9(main),
i just got me the fedora 8 , is it a good one?
good ol' BeNNy

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2008, 10:24:44 AM »
there are problem with drivers on linux distros, true, but you can't say vista doesn't have them, either :P

The only real driver issue these days is Video and Wireless, you just have to do a little research before hand though. Most of the popular chipsets are supported.

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2008, 10:47:26 AM »
Fedora is pretty good, but version 9 is out.
If you are going to switch to Linux I suggest going with either Fedora, OpenSuse, or a Debian based distro (like Ubuntu) Those are the ones that generally work hard to make Linux really easy to use.

Offline Rand alThorTopic starter

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Re: OS?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2008, 04:32:42 PM »
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why do you even care so much about windows programs?

Because I am a programmer at heart and I want make sure that when I write programs (games, utilities, organization software, program suites, etc.) it reaches at least most, if not all the people it can. I program mainly with visual studio express so unless I re-write the whole program in Dev-C++ with a graphics library for the UI, the OS my customers use has to be able to support Win32 programs with the .NET platform.

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2008, 05:30:54 PM »
I'm an engineer at heart and I want to make sure that when I make a robot I make the most technically sound design I can.

I understand what you want, but I think it's irrelevant when it comes to robotics. Interoperability with Windows for robotics? Doesn't hurt. Does the OS have to be Windows? No.

Offline Tsukubadaisei

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Re: OS?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2008, 08:48:44 PM »
I'm an engineer at heart and I want to make sure that when I make a robot I make the most technically sound design I can.

I understand what you want, but I think it's irrelevant when it comes to robotics. Interoperability with Windows for robotics? Doesn't hurt. Does the OS have to be Windows? No.
Agreed. And when it comes to robotics and scientific information engineering linux seems to have the highest marketshare: lots of microcontrollers can run some sort of linux and most supercomputers are running on linux as well. Just check wikipedia if you dont believe me.
I dont want to start a "os war" so use whatever you want.
A.I.(yes those are my initials)

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2008, 12:03:07 AM »
Don't forget the Real-Time capabilities that are being added to Linux nearly every release cycle. Also there are numerous projects made native for Linux, that can be used in robotics, and are free as in speech so the source code is there for your learning and using.

Here are a few that I've found and am exploring (slowly  :P)
Real Time, Kinematics/Dynamics and Bayesian Filtering Library
Open Computer Vision Library
Robot Server/Client software enabling simulation
Large NASA JPL project to provide many Robotic Libraries
GPS software for Linux

And many more projects in the wings.

I don't think that working with Windows is 'bad,' I just think that working with open source is a better way to learn. And since Linux is the most prominent open source operating system, most open source projects are native to it. That's my thoughts on the mater, take it or leave it.


Offline ahab

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Re: OS?
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2008, 12:09:15 AM »
I've developed for MaRTE http://marte.unican.es/ and it was relatively painless.

Not an OS that I'd like to develop and test a product with. I'd rather run linux on the robot at the time.

I mainly run Linux because it is the first OS that I learned its under workings. After that Windows just started rubbing me the wrong way.

Offline photray94

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Re: OS?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2008, 12:49:09 AM »
Don't even think of responding to this post until you've read all of it.

Alright people, I'm a veteran in the OS wars, I've used multiple operating systems in my time.  I was born into a Windows 95 family a while back, then of course we upgraded to Windows XP.  Until I was about twelve or thirteen, I never had been very technologically savvy.  Things would change, I'd learn more about computers, how to program, etc.  Then my operating system came into question.  My friend got a Mac, and I was like "Oh my god, that's so cool" but realized its capabilities were limited.  Its performance quickly declined after frequent use, so I stopped bothering the parents about purchasing a Mac.

Then, Apple Inc. released a stable version of Mac OS X Tiger, I was all thrilled again for Mac and I asked for a 15" MacBook Pro for my birthday.  My parents decided a laptop would be good for me, I love to write and it'd allow me to enjoy word processors from anywhere, anytime - permitting I still had battery power.

Out of no where, Linux became popular.  All distributions started seeing more and more users per day; I had to at least try my hands at Linux before I dismissed anything.  I learned how to partition a hard drive on a PC, - in particular, a Dell - defragment the drive, etc.  After an ungodly amount of trial and error, I got Ubuntu 7.10 to work.  I was still indecisive whether or not the gargantuan amount of time spent to get a stable version of Linux working was worth it.  I continued to use it, and got hooked on Linux.  All my avatars - of forums - began to mysteriously become Tux, the renowned icon of Linux.

Ubuntu 8.04 long support was then released, we were all warned it was buggy by mere users of the operating system, but authoritative figures of the Ubuntu organization let us know it was fine to use, after all, they wouldn't release an operating system if it was buggy - I'm now beginning to laugh thinking of Vista.  Anyhow, I started downloading the update to Ubuntu 8.04 "Hardy Heron", my system froze - but, wasn't I told that is impossible for Linux machine from the community?  I booted up my computer again - note this is note happening on my MacBook Pro, but my Dell - and selected the option to start up Ubuntu, nothing but a blank - actually, shaded tan - screen.  I would soon move back to Mac, switching to Windows when I absolutely desperately needed an application I could not think of living without; I figured out alternatives to Windows I could use on Mac, and soon Mac became my only operating system.

Next, I'll share with you some quoted material from another site, http://www.askreamaor.com/computer-related/linux-and-unix/reasons-why-linux-sucks/, explaining why Linux is not always the operating system of choice.


Quote
No games!  Or at least, not many games to speak of.  No, I don't mean running an emulator to support Windows games.  No, I don't mean the emulators for arcade and Nintendo.  I want to play, not emulate.  Native, platform games, made for it and working with it.  No, I don't mean some text-mode rogue thing or the nerdy little puzzle games that come with the Gnome and KDE.  When will Linux decide to pay more attention to the fun side?

Chasing windows.  Seriously, it's nice that most distributions went from all the command and console stuff to a full desktop-capable system like Macs and Windows.  Now it needs to find its own look.  Too many distributions out there are trying to be a perfect clone of Windows XP; if I want XP, I know where to find it.  Get Linux over its insecurity complex and have it make up its own "look and feel" already!

All the hardware is supported - except mine.  Can I get this digital camera working?  800 drivers for digital cameras - nope mine isn't on the list.  What about the wireless card?  Dozens of brands supported - whoops, I bought the wrong one!  I'm tired of playing hardware bingo - either I'm very unlucky at it, or there's still some big holes to fill.

Problems coming up to a desktop.  At least detect good default settings for a monitor and video card, and then give me an easy way to fix the size and color depth if I need to.  Many, many distributions do this, so the ones that don't and either haul off and boot me to a plaid striped letterbox screen or leave me at a console trying to guess what my monitor's vertical refresh rates is are even guiltier by comparison.  It's all open source, so the distributions that get it wrong can just borrow from the ones that get it right, right?

Inner-Linux flame wars.  KDE versus Gnome!  Emacs versus vi!  Ubuntu versus Mandriva!  All of these are fought just as feverishly as if they...  cost money.  Hey, you're giving it all away for free, so who cares what anybody uses?

FOSS purity.  Okay, I loaded a closed-source driver onto my system so my video card will work.  Do I have to be nailed to a wall for it?  Yes, I know open source is the one true way - and if all the drivers are open one day, that will make me very happy.  In the mean time, I care about what works first.  Ditto the haggling over licenses - there's forty of them, most of them differ in one or two details, and thinking about legal stuff gives the user side of me a headache.

Obsession over taking over from Windows.  When is the year of Linux on the desktop?  Who cares?  Look, again, you're giving it away for free, so if you take over 98% of Microsoft's market share, you are ahead exactly how far?

Linux devotees are too serious.  Because you can't post a list like this and not have a bunch of them come flame you.  Lighten up.  Your system's fine.  We love you.  You're big enough now to take your beating along with the other platforms.

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: OS?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2008, 02:26:12 AM »
In the name of stopping the OS flame war that's ready to ensue here, I'm just going to agree to disagree. If you think Windows is the best for robot projects, by all means use it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 03:02:05 AM by JesseWelling »

 


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