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Author Topic: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)  (Read 16491 times)

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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« on: June 26, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »
A friend of mine donated to me a power chair (This one) and its power source is two sealed gel lead acid batteries both with 6 cells and closed vents on the tops of them (This exact kind) but they went unused for apparently 5 years or so. They are deep cycle batteries and are completely dead. I tested them with my DMM and got 1.## some volts out of one and .86 volts out of the other. Is there ANY way that I could possibly revive them? Do I have to refill the cells by opening the vents or something? Please let me know >_< these will be EXTREMELY valuable to my robots :)
Thanks in advance

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Offline paulstreats

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 06:00:08 PM »
If its like my dads old car (about 20 years ago) Then there should be some little rubber stoppers or seals on the top that you pull off and top up with de ionised water (it used to be extremely cheap from gas stations) then charge the batteries (the water only needs topping up occasionally)

Offline airman00

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 06:35:42 PM »
you might be able to trickle charge it into working .

btw in case you dont know that acid is really dangerous so wear gloves , goggles, and do it outside

also no sparks near it .

EDIT:  found this

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/electrical-and-computer-systems/24447-how-to-revive-dead-battery/
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 06:37:46 PM by airman00 »
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Offline ALZ

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2008, 02:10:21 AM »
If they have been sitting around for 5 years, they are dead to the world.

Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2008, 09:37:56 PM »
@paul
I can simply use de-ionized water? I dont have to put something electrolytic in there(such as more sulfuric acid)?

@airman(your name is eric right?)
Ill try that one if pauls idea doesnt work. And yeah I saw that forum post when I googled the question too :) Hopefully that will work :)
-EDIT-
Ill try the trickle charge on one of the 2 batteries starting in a few minutes, wish me luck :)


@ALZ
Not good enough, I will never accept final death :)
(switches to view of self being shot in the head 4 times and run over by a truck: "No! Theres still a chance I might live damn you!")
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 09:38:49 PM by HDL_CinC_Dragon »
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Offline Asellith

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2008, 11:57:48 PM »
I work with these style batteries all the time. We use them in large UPSs. No if they are 5 years old they are DEAD! Not worth your time really. Even if you get them to hold a charge it will last about 2 mins and be gone. Sell a kidney and buy new ones.
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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2008, 01:03:35 AM »
I work with these style batteries all the time. We use them in large UPSs. No if they are 5 years old they are DEAD! Not worth your time really. Even if you get them to hold a charge it will last about 2 mins and be gone. Sell a kidney and buy new ones.
Yeah thats the problem, I have no money :-\
on top of that problem, one of my cats stole my 5/16 socket wrench when I was working on the motor and now I cant find it... grrr damned cats
-EDIT-
Ok i found the socket...


So in your experience you are POSITIVE there is no way I can revive these batteries? Not a fleeting possibility?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 01:10:03 AM by HDL_CinC_Dragon »
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Offline karlis

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2008, 04:41:50 AM »
rechargable acumulators use H2SO4 acid (dont know how its in eng :( ) and there is a mix of this acid and destiled watter, in right proporcions its works, if not then not, acid cant disapier, but water cann.. if you understud me :(

old batteries is allmost imposible to retriev

sorry for my english :(

Offline airman00

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2008, 10:24:11 PM »
@airman(your name is eric right?)
yep its eric    , almost didnt notice that size 5 print    ;D

If you think it might work try it out ,  though Asellith seems to know his stuff and says they are dead . I don't see anything lost by trying to trickle charge it back to life , and if that doesnt work and you really think that the batteries might live then do what paulstreats said. Just don't do anything unnecessarily dangerous that you'll regret later.


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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2008, 02:22:29 AM »
rechargable acumulators use H2SO4 acid
H2S04 is sulfuric acid(H2S04 is the chemical name which is the same for any language; 2 Hydrogen, 1 Sulfur, and 4 Oxygen atoms :)). And I see your point about water being able to evaporate but acid having no way of leaving the container.

@Airman
Lol, yeah it seemed more visible at first for some reason :P
For the batteries I really dont have anything to lose... except vision or skin but those are minor expendable assets :P
But yeah, the batteries say the charge voltage is limited to 14.4v and im assuming thats the floor. Im not sure what mA rating I should use. I guess any wall adapter I can find would be good as theyre typically in the 50mA to 500mA range for the ones I have. Just a matter of choosing wisely :) We shall see... but for now im tired as hell... 4:30am was a bad invention... gnight everyone :)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 02:26:26 AM by HDL_CinC_Dragon »
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Offline TrickyNekro

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2008, 06:56:48 PM »
I think that gel type batteries have a certain lifespan....

Meaning that.... you can not revive them... usually it's the metal bars it got in it which get corrupted...

I used to know this from my dad's bike, he was replacing the batteries in winter cause he couldn't ride it and the alarm wasted the battery (you can't ride a hayabusa in that cold....) But even if he disconnected the battery not being used for some time gel batteries get corrupted... you will see this in when charging... even if you think it got some charge it's actually a spark gap that shows that current flows...

Anyway...

correct me if I'm wrong...

Lefteris
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 09:17:46 AM by TrickyNekro »
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Offline ed1380

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 08:31:19 AM »
its hayabusa  :P

does all this discussion apply to regular sealed acid bats too?
cause i got a couple 12v 17amp hours ones that are dead and would be great if i could revive them
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Offline TrickyNekro

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 09:18:12 AM »
its hayabusa  :P

Man right.... same on me......
For whom the interrupts toll...


P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

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Offline Admin

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 06:24:51 AM »
A friend of mine who typically knows what he is doing told me the best way to revive a lead acid battery would be to short the battery with a power resistor (to control current at just a few amps), then recharge it fast. Do that a bunch of times until the voltage is back up to normal.

I haven't verified this myself, however . . .

Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2008, 02:18:07 PM »
define just a few amps. like 5 amps? And if I dont have a power resistor, is there some method you would suggest to "make" one? Perhaps using electrolytic fluid(something and water?) to make one? Does it have to be just a few amps or can I just short it with a screw driver? Thanks for looking into it by the way
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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 02:37:03 PM »
Well, 'a few amps' is some amount below that which would cause the battery to explode/melt/etc . . . I guess whatever charging rate the battery has would be good?

A power resistor should only cost a few $. I've always had some laying around, so never needed to find/buy any . . . If one resistor can handle 1 watt (check datasheet), 10 of them in parallel can handle 10 watts. I'm sure you have some resistors around?

I guess just get out a multimeter and measure the resistance of various things you have. Make sure it can handle the power (P=R*I^2).

Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 03:05:43 PM »
Well im getting a reading of ~.85 volts from both the batteries individually. I tried hooking up my DMM on the amperage setting and seeing what it could do but I was getting zeroes all the way... I dont even think at this point that the batteries can make themselves explode lol. Im going to try my screw drive idea on one of the batteries.

And when you say recharge it fast you mean start charging it again immediately after shorting it right?
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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2008, 03:26:35 PM »
Quote
And when you say recharge it fast you mean start charging it again immediately after shorting it right?
hmmmm ok bad wording on my part . . . i meant recharge at a high current rating.

let us know your results! (like how many recharge/discharge cycles it took, the voltage at each cycle, recharging current, etc.)

Offline dsheller

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2008, 04:20:35 PM »
P = V^2 / R is also another good one to memorize... or just realize it comes from P = IV and V = IR and you'll be covered forever... just to throw my two cents in -- I have never seen a battery that old come back from the dead, believe me I was cheap enough to try on one a few times for an old Volkswagen Beetle. I spent a couple days messing with it but then just ended up buying a new one... but if you manage to get it to charge I'd be impressed.

Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2008, 04:28:28 PM »
yeah. Ohms law is the basics of the basics so it was like the first thing I learned when i took classes for electronics (I actually found this site while looking for ideas for a final project at the end of my Electronics 2 course :P). As far as the batteries go, I dont have the money right now to shell out $140 (70 bucks a pop for the half decent battieres) so im going to try whatever I can to bring them back. Thanks for the reply :)

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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2008, 07:25:04 PM »
IT LIVES! Mwahahaha! :D I got one of them to come alive again. I just tested it out with a 12v/24v DC motor I have and it runs it perfectly. I didnt take any readings with my DMM or test its life span or anything yet but either way. Its alive right now :D I did the short and charge think like 8 times (shorted it, charged it for like 5 seconds, and repeat) and then just left on the charger over night... possibly 2 nights accidentally lol but WHATEVER! THEY LIVE! IN YOURE FACE NON-BELIEVERS! SHUN THE NON BELIEVERS!.... ok im done...


summary:
Got on battery to live again, currently working on the second one. Yay me :)

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Offline airman00

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2008, 08:44:52 PM »
nice!!!! That is absolutely amazing.



can you post a quick members tutorial on the subject of reviving dead batteries? It is very handy info to know
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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2008, 01:46:20 PM »
I dont know if it was a fluke thing or not though.... twice... I mean the batteries may have just been severely discharged but not really dead.... and right now the second battery is charging but its making funny noises... Im not sure if the first one did too because I couldnt be around for the whole process of recharge... im distancing myself from the battery in the event that it goes ape **** on me and blows up my house and all my horded electronic donations. If it doesnt blow up, ill post in a seperate thread exactly what I did including model/serial numbers and types of the batteries and the charger the estimated times and all that jazz. Basically a write up to my knowledge of how I brought them back to life... we shall see........ btw if you never hear from me again you know why ;)
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Offline airman00

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2008, 01:49:27 PM »
 btw if you never hear from me again you know why ;)
[/quote]

can u include me in you will? I want those batteries if they work!  :D
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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 01:57:52 PM »
well as I said, if it blows up there wont be anything left to give :P Otherwise yeah, you can have em :)


Yeah the battery is getting real warm but not exactly hot. Its also making a high pitched hissing noise that you would expect to hear from something that was on the stove with only a very small opening... or something about to explode... either one works I guess. Its also making a kind of tapping noise that sounds like a quit old hard drive or something.... I think im going to move it out side just in case it does blow up... O_o
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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2008, 02:30:09 PM »
Quote
Its also making a high pitched hissing noise that you would expect to hear from something that was on the stove with only a very small opening...
Sounds like its venting toxic gas, hope your in a ventilated room ;)

(serious)

So yea, you should use a power resistor when shorting . . . the heat is causing boiling in your battery.

Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2008, 03:56:03 PM »
well the thing is im not shorting it for more than a second. Its the charging thats causing the boiling... ? and whats a little toxic gas amongst brain cells.
I unhooked the battery from the charger and then unplugged the charger because it too was getting a little hot which I think is normal because it has a big heat sink and everything on the back of it. Im gunna check it periodically and hook it back up once its cooled down. Ill keep you posted on the progress

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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2008, 03:08:36 PM »
Ok so apparently I got way side tracked with this topic and never finished it. Someone PMed me about finding this thread on google so Im going to redo the whole thing... I havnt touched the batteries since then either since ive been so busy with other things. I just measured my voltages however of both batteries with my DMM about 5 minutes ago. The first battery I worked on is still give me 11.75v no load other than the DMM. The second battery which is also the hissing and boiling one is giving me .8v. So as you can see after like 5 months, the voltages are still above the .8v and 1v I got them with :P

This next time around I will be more scientific about it and makes sure im getting all kinds of measurements and all that good stuff. I wont be able to work on it until MAYBE monday? If not then ill try to start it on Thursday.
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Offline HDL_CinC_DragonTopic starter

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Re: revive sealed lead acid battery? (2)
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2009, 08:02:50 PM »
riiiight... so im clearly unreliable for this sort of thing...
Progress:
I just bought a second DMM so I can read voltage and current at the same time when testing it on that motor I have. Ill be documenting everything and putting it on an excel sheet for later posting as an HTML doc. Ill be recording charge voltage, charge current, and charge time. I will also write down the serial and model number for the charger. The DMMs I will be using are both DVM850BL's from AllElectronics.com. I love those DMMs. Had one for like a year now and its everything I need... except an O-Scope :) so I bought a second one of the same model :D

ummm what else... oh. Ill be using a kitchen timer too so that I can be a little more accurate in my timings. I will also be documenting using pickchures! YAY PICKCHURES! Pictures
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 08:03:44 PM by HDL_CinC_Dragon »
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