go_away

Author Topic: school subject choosing help  (Read 5794 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline annoyin_kidTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
  • Helpful? 0
school subject choosing help
« on: January 31, 2007, 11:46:05 AM »
alrite its time i choose wot subjects i take and this decision will end up effecting my future. in the future im pretty sure i want to do something that is engineering (electronics/mechanatronics) related and you guys (especially admin) have scored jobs in stuff that i am interested in. im stuck between choosing between graphic design and computing.

graphic design is when i do all those techinical ruler drawings, cad and possibly make a scale mock-up and model of the designed product. im perfectly alrite with graphics but the only thing is that if i dont take graphics this year and i decide to take it next year i wont be allowed. also it is a long time consuming process but it isnt hard.

computing is when i learn to use ms word, excell, publisher powerpoint and flash to make computer graphics, little brochures, flyers, newsletters, slideshow presentations, etc. computing is really easy (most of the time it is so easy that im ready to fall asleep any second) for me and im pretty good at it and in the future it could lead to me programming but i would think that it is on a really basic level. also if i dont take it this year but decide to take it next year i will be able to pick it up and i can sit a course and learn all the stuff i do in 3 yrs in 6 months.

so what would be the most useful for me in the future in engineering (electronics/mechanatonics)? i enjoy both subjects and im happy to do either one but you guys know what would be the most useful as most of you guys have been to uni and done the courses. my parents both studied biology related stuff so they didn't really know which one is good. please help, i found only found out i have to make my decision tomorrow.

edit: lol i just reliased that i posted in robot vids instead of misc. admin can you please move this.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 12:21:17 PM by annoyin_kid »

Offline trigger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Helpful? 0
  • It's an op amp, not a gun part.
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 01:18:41 PM »
Thinking more about my high school experience, I did learn something that helped in engineering. I taught myself how to program games on my Ti-85 during calculus class. ;D  The Ti-85 language was similar to BASIC (I think--I've never actually used BASIC).

My first real language in college was Java, and then I learned C and assembler. Even more fun was programming a simple processor in binary (and later hex) for one class. :D  I figure now, once you know one decent language, you can figure out any language.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 01:06:29 PM by trigger »
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who can read binary, and those who can't.

Offline Steve Joblin

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 405
  • Helpful? 2
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 03:31:10 PM »
It sounds from your descriptions that "Computing" is more about using applications, where as "Grahpic Design" may be more "arts" oriented... since you have an interest in the engineer "arts", you may be more interested in "Graphics Design".  It also doesn't sound like the "Computing" class is going to help you with programming.  It seems that the Computing class will only help you in preparing presentations and reports that you may need to give in College.

My vote is "Graphics Design"!, but like trigger says, "It really doesn't matter too much... pick what you are most interested in.

Offline JesseWelling

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Helpful? 0
  • Only You Can Build A Robot!
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2007, 04:00:37 PM »
Don't take that computing class. That class is a sham and should be called 'MS Office Computing'.

My advice (and some may call me crazy) if you want to learn how to program, download a .iso of Ubuntu and switch to Linux. Then let the internet be your textbook, and google for anything you want to know.

If there is one thing I could change about my high school experience, it would have been to start using Linux then instead of my sophomore year of college. Also, try to learn an industry supported programing language. The more modern the better. C, C++, Java, Ruby, Python. Any of those languages are good places to start.

If I were in your position I'd go for the graphic design.

Offline sdk32285

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 418
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2007, 04:31:09 PM »
If your in high school you should try to join a robotics club or electronic club at your school. Also their are various high school robotic competions that your school might support.

Robots for Roboticists Blog - http://robotsforroboticists.com/

Offline Admin

  • Administrator
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,658
  • Helpful? 169
    • Society of Robots
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2007, 09:06:17 PM »
that graphic design class sounds more like industrial design.

i once had an industrial designer help me with one of my robots. i definitely learned tons about rapid prototyping from her, and still occasionally use what i learned on my robots.

if you ever decide to make and market an engineering related product, industrial design experience will be very very useful.

my vote is for graphic design.

Offline JesseWelling

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Helpful? 0
  • Only You Can Build A Robot!
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 03:35:50 AM »
Just found this.....
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blogs/why_johnny_can_code
See? I wasn't just blowing smoke...... :P

Offline Hal9000

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 338
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 05:50:30 AM »
When I came to University, I knew nothing of programming.

My order of programming was as follows:
1) Java fundamentals
2) Basic c++
3) C for 8051 microcontrollers
4) Java 2 (GUIs etc)
5) Assembly language

From my point of view, I think it would have been more useful to learn assembly, then C and C++. Java is supposedly simpler because it is high level. However, they forget that only by understanding the internal workings of the computer, programming makes sense.

I think you should choose graphics, and learn computing by yourself! I certainly would encourage this way. Geeks are born to the internet, to have fun with programming. All I needed was to know what was out there. My course helped me along the way, since I have no geeky friends.
"The truth is, you can't hide from the truth, cos the truth is all there is" - Handsome Boy Modeling School

Offline annoyin_kidTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 11:46:16 AM »
is avr/pic programmed using C? and are there any others programmed using C?
wots wrong with basic?

rite now i cant do much as my parents wont let me buy all that new stuff but as soon as i get a robot which they can interact with im sure they will let me get the new chips and i can start programming them when they reliase that im not just playing with lego or something like that.

Offline JesseWelling

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Helpful? 0
  • Only You Can Build A Robot!
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 12:39:56 PM »
true pic's can be programed in C but theres really not a free compiler for them.
AVR's on the other hand have a free compiler from GNU (same people who make Linux possible)

That's why I prefer AVR. And if you want to learn about RTOS or look at pre-programed
libraries (a2d, timers, serial, i2c, pretty much anything you can thing of) AVR is the way to go.
Because of it's open source compiler, most projects done with a AVR are open source as well.

Basic has to much insulation from the actual workings of a computer IMHO.

I had a similar expirence to Hal9000 but I think C and assembly should be taught as two
classes side by side the first semester, Then finish up with C and theory of computation
second semester. After that move on to the Object Oriented languages (C++, Java).

Any ways you seem like your motivated. As long as you keep that you'll do fine.  ;)

Offline annoyin_kidTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2007, 11:00:19 PM »
thanks for the reply jesse. just a few things

so avr is programmed using C?

and what do these stand for and mean: RTOS and IMHO

Offline trigger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Helpful? 0
  • It's an op amp, not a gun part.
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2007, 12:41:54 AM »
thanks for the reply jesse. just a few things

so avr is programmed using C?

and what do these stand for and mean: RTOS and IMHO

you can program an avr with c or assembly. RTOS is a real time operating system. They're used for multitasking, etc.  IMHO - in my humble opinion. :)
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who can read binary, and those who can't.

Offline annoyin_kidTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2007, 03:55:52 PM »
alrite thanks. what is assembly? is it the boot strap code or does the avr chip come with it already?

Offline ed1380

  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,478
  • Helpful? 3
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2007, 04:47:04 PM »
I'm kinda in the same situation, even my career choises are like yours. Don't get deep into computing unless you plan on working as a secretary. My vote is with the graphic design. If you want to practice now, you can get google sketchup beta, it's  pretty nice program, but compared to autodesk/solidworks it is weak.
Problems making the $50 robot circuit board?
click here. http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198

Offline JesseWelling

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Helpful? 0
  • Only You Can Build A Robot!
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2007, 08:47:54 PM »

Offline groovy9

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2007, 08:42:47 AM »
you can program an avr with c or assembly.

There are a couple of free BASIC compilers (compiler, not interpreter), for AVR.  I tried one called BASCOM.  As far as I know, *all* the AVR compilers have a free or demo version that will work forever, but limits you to 2k or 4k programs.  For a beginner project, 4k is a ton of program space.

I use the Codevision C compiler for AVR and love it.  It has a nifty wizard that let's you click some buttons and it spits out code that sets up all the obscure registers for timers, ADC, etc.  It really cuts down on datasheet reading requirements.

Offline JesseWelling

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Helpful? 0
  • Only You Can Build A Robot!
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2007, 05:54:46 PM »
On the other hand if you use avr-gcc there is no artificial restirctions at all.....and it's free (free beer and free speech).
Honestly though, if you want to use your hardware to it's fullest potential you are going to have to read the datasheet anyways. Besides that there is already free(beer and speech) libraries for the AVR series that you can look at to understand the obscurities.  ;)

Offline groovy9

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Helpful? 0
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2007, 01:13:54 PM »
On the other hand if you use avr-gcc there is no artificial restirctions at all.....and it's free (free beer and free speech).
Honestly though, if you want to use your hardware to it's fullest potential you are going to have to read the datasheet anyways. Besides that there is already free(beer and speech) libraries for the AVR series that you can look at to understand the obscurities.  ;)

Suit yourself.  But someone who won't need to exceed the size restriction and who wants to get their code working quickly would be FAR better off going with Codevision or Bascom or another commercial compiler with reasonably complete docs and a built-in library.

I started with WinAVR (AVR-gcc for Windows) and AVRlib.  It was painful and the binary that resulted from my attempt to use timer.c from AVRlib was ridiculously huge.

Going back again would be less painful since the docs from the commercial compilers has cleared things up quite a bit.  But I'll stick with Codevision and pay the hundred bucks when I start hitting the size limit.

Offline JesseWelling

  • Expert Roboticist
  • Supreme Robot
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Helpful? 0
  • Only You Can Build A Robot!
Re: school subject choosing help
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2007, 05:56:51 PM »
I guess since my goal was to put a RTOS on my ATmega128 it was kind of a no option for me.....
Using the AVRlib and FreeRTOS compiled by avr-gcc 3.4.3 I ended up with a 41k hex for full optimization ( -O3) and a 35k for size optimization ( -Os).

To each their own.  ;)

 


Get Your Ad Here