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Author Topic: Robot Harm  (Read 4839 times)

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Offline Hal9000Topic starter

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Robot Harm
« on: February 11, 2007, 08:16:09 AM »
I was just wondering, what or who is responsible for if a robot hurts or kills someone?

The obvious idea would be the owner of the robot..........but what if there was a huge development team? Would there be a search into who was responsible for the PART of the robot that was responsible?

But then, what about if it was human error by the person who gets hurt? How do they judge?

Does anyone know any good sites about this?
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Offline JesseWelling

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 08:47:54 AM »
See this is where the line of people law versus AI law starts to blur.

If some mentally slow (read: talking on his cell phone while crossing the street) jumps in front of a robotic bus, who is to blame?
What if it was a human driver? Should it be any different?

Bottom line.....Even though robotics and controll systems is the profession I'm going to go into, I'm not going to think about that until some one tells me to. Instead I'm going to concentrate on writing good, solid, correct code.

my $.02

Offline Sam_Charette

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 10:20:56 AM »
It's really impossible to say, because the sheer amount of possible situations where this might occur are so different, that each one would require a ruling specific to it.

Take a battlebot for instance.  It could be perfectly safe, as long as it's being operated by a good operator.  In that case, it might be the operator.  If there's a section of the robot that is built poorly, and hurts someone, it'd likely be the designer/builder.  If some idiot decided to lick the chain saw as it was running, well then it would be the victim's fault.

There can not be any sort of general rule to cover all situations.  It's impossible.  Even for a robot that is 100% autonomous, the situation itself would govern who is at fault.
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Offline Admin

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 03:11:55 PM »
short answer:
lawyers dont argue ethics . . .

long answer:
it doesnt really matter if robots are even involved . . .

for example, is it McDonalds fault for not telling people coffee is hot, or the lady who spilled it on herself that won millions in the lawsuit? :P

if someone gets hurt from a malfunctional product, they sue the company that makes the product. the company then decides to fire the specific employee(s) that screwed up. if someone broke the law, all who broke it pay the price determined by law. Enron, for example.

sony can recall batteries that catch on fire . . . but can you recall raging AI robots with lasers for eyes? :P

an extra $.01 added.

Offline JesseWelling

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 06:24:34 PM »
You can do a recall with this:


that's my *ahem* $.50

Offline Hal9000Topic starter

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 03:48:54 AM »
Yeah, I guess that was too generalised a question. Thanks for all the input!

Maybe my question should have been "Why did they decide to put a robot in Rocky IV.........It wrecked the movie completely for me"
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Offline fembot

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2007, 05:30:34 PM »
It seems that until robots are sentient, and have autonomy over their own movements...whoever programmed them should be held responsible for their "actions."


Offline JesseWelling

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 05:41:13 PM »
I'll go ahead and throw this one out there one more time:

If I jump infront of a moving buss is the robot driver responsible for killing me?

What if the robot isn't being used the way it was designed to be used?

There's just to many special cases to make that the golden rule........

Offline trigger

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2007, 10:18:29 PM »
I'll go ahead and throw this one out there one more time:

If I jump infront of a moving buss is the robot driver responsible for killing me?

What if the robot isn't being used the way it was designed to be used?

There's just to many special cases to make that the golden rule........

Currently, the law of torts (civil actions that aren't contracts) would govern. Robots are products, so it's all about products liability, i.e., were there design/manufacturing defects that were negligent? Should strict liability apply? Was the killing intentional? And of course there's criminal laws that apply too.

You can get the creators/operators without even thinking about the robot. In fact, it doesn't make sense too...since no robot will ever be sentient...
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Offline JesseWelling

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 10:40:05 PM »
Quote
You can get the creators/operators without even thinking about the robot. In fact, it doesn't make sense too...since no robot will ever be sentient...

I disagree on this but... take for instance what hapens when AI becomes smart enough to make AI... that's a sticky situation.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 10:41:25 PM by JesseWelling »

Offline Hal9000Topic starter

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 05:36:45 AM »
Can AI ever really happen?
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Offline JonHylands

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 06:15:06 AM »
Well, I for one not only believe that it is possible, but I'm trying to build it as well.

Time will tell...

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Offline Hal9000Topic starter

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 07:31:28 AM »
Oh right :)

It's so hard to think of how you would do it.........

Maybe i'll do a tad of research at some point.

Some magazine was saying it's been done with living cells
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Offline Admin

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 09:49:06 AM »
Havnt you guys seen the movies? Everyone knows that a robot struck by lightning becomes artificially intelligent . . .

More serious now . . .
I dont think robots will ever become suddenly sentient. Over time, I can see us making 'insect intelligence' to 'mouse intelligence' to 'dog intelligence', etc and just slowly going up the scale with our understanding of building such machines. The real question would be, where would you draw the line between sentient and non-sentient? When can you say, 'oh our robot has human intelligence now'? The insect level? The dog level? Its only harder to make that distinction when your robot is built from silicon instead of meat, because there is no litmus test for this kind of thing . . .

I think one day far far in the future the law will have a set of guidelines to distinguish between sentient and non-sentient machines . . . and it will be us to write up those laws <evil grin>

Offline ed1380

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 05:15:10 PM »
I don't think robots will ever have full artificial inteligence, since they do what they are programed to do. unless it is a cyborg thing, then like it's been said take out the emp guns
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Offline JonHylands

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2007, 06:10:47 PM »
You have a very limited view of computers if you think that's all there is to it. Sure, computers do what you program them to do. You don't program an AI robot to "do" things - you program it to learn how to do things.

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Offline Brandon121233

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2007, 07:52:52 PM »
The main distinction would be wheather or not a robot will ever have a soul- and the answer is plainly no. However as someone else posted about cyborgs, what really draws the line between a human that has a bunch of electronics attached/implanted to them, and a robot that might oneday use a brain cell CPU? I personally hope to never see that day come. And to whom ever started this topic, it kinda got off track these last couple of posts, someone might want to put it back on course.
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Offline JonHylands

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2007, 08:10:28 PM »
You might feel that a robot will never have a soul. Personally, I'm not convinced that such a thing exists, so I don't see that as a big barrier.

- Jon

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2007, 10:33:44 PM »
Quote
The main distinction would be wheather or not a robot will ever have a soul- and the answer is plainly no.
Whether one exists or not, there are two problems with this:
1) Its hard to find two people that agree exactly what a soul is (does bacteria have souls? insects? dogs?)
2) There is no litmus test to determine if something has a soul (i.e. a soul-o-meter :P)

Hmmmm enslavery under the assumption it has no soul . . . heard that one before :P
(just poking fun, not actually being mean or anything)

Offline Boomrlargo

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Re: Robot Harm
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2007, 04:57:09 PM »
Is the car manufacturer responsible if a madman uses their product to run down innocent bystanders?

As with any product liability, the courts would look at manufacturer negligence in design and manufacture, whether the product was used as it was intended, and if there was malicious intent in the making of the product itself.  And, as always, who has the most money... 

If the robot was remotely controlled by a criminal although the robot was not specifically designed as such, most likely it would be the users responsibility.

If some robot went berserk then criminal investigations would look at the manufacturer and their safeguards.  Odds are low that a single designer/team would be found personally liable unless there was severe negligence or intenet to do harm.  Of course criminal liability and civil liability are two very different things.

As with any new area of the law it really is a coin toss as to where the decisions will end up...

God save us all!!

Largo
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 04:59:25 PM by Boomrlargo »

 


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