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Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Robot Project (Need Help)
« on: November 23, 2008, 09:22:26 PM »
Looking for Parts! Please if you have a link to a cheap part listed below please post it Thank you! ^_^

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|I am at around $86.99 - $140.29(Size of Lexan polycarbonate up to 24 inches x 24 inches)|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  ^^^^^ Not counting the parts i need help on. (So far so good?)^^^^^

AVR ISP2 Programmer http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=ATAVRISP2-ND

Arduino USB Microcontroller <-----Maybe!
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=666

|x2| Ultra-Sonic Range Finder
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2909789

6v 5 Cell Battery Pack http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/showitem.asp?ItemID=11054.7

(Need 4 Strong Motors Please Help) <--- And wheels ^_^

A good R/c kit with a 8 segment control i believe it is called, both joysticks go up/down left/right with a few switches and i will need a receiver and so on for the r/c side. i need the 8 segment because i want to control the arm with one stick and the base with the other, switch to open/close gripper. Please help me look for a cheap one thank you!

Sensors to help the robot avoid walls etc, i am thinking of about a pan head for the base and another one for the arm.

Base will be 12"X12" sheet of 1/4" Lexan polycarbonate (Is that enough?)
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7458&step=4&showunits=inches

What Microcontroller should i use and what else do i need please help and thank you!


Hello everyone i am Michael, and i hate all of you ^_^ ok i am just joking hi guys i am here to ask for some help, you see i am going to create a robot called Syth.

This robot will have a Robotic arm (HEHEHE BIG WORDS!) and will have a 3 or 4 wheel platform i would like some help choosing it i beleave the 4 wheel one will be better... Well i know a bit in robotics and i know that you all will say i need to build a small simple robot to learn, Well i cant do that because i get bored with that stuff and at my school i learned how to build some but they always get the parts for us then we build, see where im going. I dont really know what i really need all i know is this.

4 DC Motors? Or 2 and one free wheel in front.
Plat form,
A switch for power
Sensors, it will be a intelligent robot (for got the real word starts with a "A")
Plat form DUH! Im going with plastic like palmisano ERP robot located here (Its awesome!)


Servos,
Wheels (Plastic)

and thats it, i dont know what microcontroller i want or the types of Motors, i know its a big project but it is for me to show my grandpa it is going to be his birthday, and i will make another one! ^_^ i  always liked robots and always wanted to create one. if you all need it i will go and make a simple picture on the robots look. Not big and fancy but good enough.  ::)

HERE IS THE PICTURE 3D Model (First Time) ^_^





Please help me, i can spend about $0-$200 hope it is enough i am only 15 and my parents wont help me =(

anything else i should need please tell me, oh and i guess i could make it r/c, so i would need some of that i would spend up to 80$ so i guess $0-280$
and another switch to change it from r/c to intelligent. if it is passable ^_^

Thanks to all who helps and please no negative comments thanks!! ;D

I have re posted this topic here in the Electronics because i be leave it would fit here mostly because i am working on the inside of the bot now.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 11:17:01 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline paulstreats

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 06:35:51 AM »
Quote
Well i know a bit in robotics and i know that you all will say i need to build a small simple robot to learn

The reason behind this is the $50 robot on this website that we ask people to build will show you how to build the circuit (brains) for a robot with a programmable microcontroller. This part can then be re-used to control the robot that you have in mind above. Infact the $50 robots if built well can give you a stable base platform and some simple sensors. Build it well, apply the rangefinder upgrade then all you need for your idea is to add an arm.

 Look at that tutorial, then build it but rather than cheaping out on the base construction spend some money and build a good base out of aluminium/hdpe or whatever you want. You can probably have a really good base platform that works for $75 along with support from the many people here who have built it.

 This can then be expanded to add arms, extra sensors, r/c etc... but you will have a guide to work from. Its okay sticking a load of sensors and motors to your robot but you will have to understand how to control these. They dont just work themselves.

Quote
Thanks to all who helps and please no negative comments thanks!!

Negative comments or constructive criticism can be more useful than 10 comments all saying like "yeah great idea, use modified servo's instead of motors, get some sonar's for the sensors etc..."

 

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 08:29:47 AM »
Ok thanks! i will start my work and if i need any help i will ask here thank you!

And what i ment by negative is "You suck you fail" ect

Offline Webbot

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 08:37:34 PM »
Quote
I have re posted this topic here in the Electronics because i be leave it would fit here mostly because i am working on the inside of the bot now.
AdvsNoob - most of us check for new posts (regardless of 'section' - so this is really a double post and will probably result in 'no more', and 'no different' replies....


Quote
i know that you all will say i need to build a small simple robot to learn, Well i cant do that because i get bored with that stuff and at my school i learned how to build some but they always get the parts for us then we build, see where im going. I dont really know what i really need all i know is this.
As per the replies to your earlier post - then you need to do the simple stuff first. You may find it 'boring' coz 'school gets the parts' - but you will learn to stand om your own two/three/four feet!!! Don't forget that this forum isn't a shopping site. Use google or the myriad of providers mentioned in other posts. If you 'dont really know what I really need' then its a bit hard for us to help. Have you checked out all the tutorials and member tutorials for ideas. If you really do want to do a robot arm then there is lots of info on the mechanics.

Quote
Thanks to all who helps and please no negative comments thanks!! Grin
Dont take this the wrong way - but it sounds as though you may be out of your depth with this Syth project.  Start with something simple, do it well and knock grampas socks off !!


Webbot Home: http://webbot.org.uk/
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Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 08:50:35 PM »
I  will man lol thanks!

I really have ideas on what im doing it is just that i need help finding some cheap parts you know what i mean? i am 15 and i still dont have a job have to be 16 here lol but anyways.

I really just need help on what kind of motors for power and i am not working on the arm yest just the base ^_^ i really need help with the motor and the Microcontroller to use it with lol, those parts kinda make me wounder what to buy so i just need help getting all the parts for that and if i could i will use the $50 robot one but i like the programmer i am going to get ^_^

Ps i beleave i found a good sensor.

Devantech SRF05 Ultrasonic Range Sensor
http://www.trossenrobotics.com/devantech-srf05-ultrasonic-range-sensor.aspx
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 08:53:37 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline airman00

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 09:18:08 PM »
I'd use a PING since its more documented then the SRF05 - also the ping is cheaper
http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/194
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 09:54:56 PM »
I'd use a PING since its more documented then the SRF05 - also the ping is cheaper
http://www.societyofrobots.com/member_tutorials/node/194


Where did you get it? ^_^

Offline airman00

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 10:00:09 PM »
dude I dunno where you live ( nor do I really want to know :P ). Depends.Some Radioshacks sell it .
Google "PING Ultrasonic Sensor" and you'll find a bunch of online stores.

I personally bought it from here http://www.trossenrobotics.com/parallax-ping-ultrasonic-range-sensor.aspx
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 10:01:56 PM by airman00 »
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 10:54:47 PM »
OK, thanks man!  ;D Sweet now i have sensors!

Offline airman00

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 10:58:58 PM »
OK, thanks man!  ;D Sweet now i have sensors!

but you need way to interface it to the microcontroller

what I personally do when designing robots is the following :
Set functions of the robot
Get a general idea of what to do for each function of the robot
Then find what sort of parts are necessary
Learn how to use each part separately and do tests with the part and your microcontroller
Integrate it all together and use the code that you used before when playing around with each part individually

Also what will your robot do exactly? I don't really understand what the point of the arm and sonar sensors is
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline dt

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 09:41:30 AM »
I agree to paulstreatsm, it's way better to start out with an easy robot. So how much do you know about robotics? Do you know how to blink a led, control a motor or servo, etc? You should also upgrade your picture with Google SketchUp or AutoCAD (if the school has it) It's better to have the complete layout before starting, that way you will have a better view of where to put the components. What will it be used for?

You can look around this site for your project :) http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&sessid=44a5e336e69a5f073445491de6c3e62b (Don't get the Arduino starter pack because it's cheaper to get the stuff separately!!)

By the way, *points at your avatar* Eureka Seven was a good anime ;)

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 03:51:21 PM »
 It is really for me and my grandpa to enter a robot contest, the robot has to control itself pick up i beleave it is 15 pounds, by it self and it has to beable to be r/c controllable and to do the same test again.

Winner gets money to there school in this case its mine not my grandpas DUH! lol but i just want to make this so i can help my school and build something with my grandpa, the parts when they come in will surprise him (one of the whole points listed above) then we will make a cool robot that we hope to win with!

Got it now? but i can make it i just need help gathering the right parts

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 03:54:32 PM »
Oh cool thanks, i know how to make robots like i said in the school i really just need help with getting the right parts.. understand it is kinda hard to explain oh and i have like 5 or 7 papers here with the size of the robot and so on i just really need the parts. i know what it will look like ^_^ and where to put things i just need help with getting the right parts.

PS. Thanks on the avatar, when my hair gets long again i kinda look like Renton so i thought it would be smart to do that, friend showed me the show because he said i looked like him lol.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 04:02:36 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline szhang

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2008, 05:19:17 PM »
What kind of contest is this?  If I were to invest in a contest like that I'd at least want part of the price money to offset the cost of building the thing :P

Especially for things like microcontroller, you usually use the one you're most familiar with (because all of them have a learning curve).  You linked to an AVR programmer, so I guess your choice is limited to ATMega8/16/168 (they all function similarly, you can use other AVRs, but most people use those)

Do you know C well?  Because you'll need that to do embedded programming on vanilla AVRs.

15lbs is a significant amount of weight, it means your robot have to be fairly big and powerful.  For comparison, a standard hobby servo (hs-322) has 3.7g*cm of torque, that equates to only 1/2lbf for a 6 inch arm.  And remember, the more powerful the servo, the more expensive it is.

Dont take this the wrong way - but it sounds as though you may be out of your depth with this Syth project.  Start with something simple, do it well and knock grampas socks off !!

Hate to say it, but I have to agree.  Real robots take a long time (and lot of money) to make.  A good way to make a robot is to do it in small steps, start simple and gradually add to the functinality of the robot.

BTW, it is "channel" not "segment" as in 8-channel radio, and 8 channel radios don't come cheap.  Your budget of $200 probably won't even cover the radio itself.


Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2008, 05:53:07 PM »
Oh i have the remote i just needed a receiver that will take up to 8 for my controller, i have to agree with the robot arm, that is what my grandpa is going to make, he likes that kind of things and the prize is money for school and i get to pick i beleave it is 10 parts each under $150 from r/c country hobbies, for a new robot. It is kinda cool oh and i get a $100 if i win as well i am not sure what the other is as i mean by others is 2nd and 3rd, i be leave 2nd gets just $100 and 3rd gets $75, the contest is being ran by R/C country Hobbies. kinda as a fun raiser for my school some kids uncle started it i don't know.

Im building the base with the sensors and so on on it the arm will come later the first contest starts in two months and it is just the maze test (that is what the sensors our for) all it has to do is avoid things in the way and you have to do it with out hitting more that 3 things and under 10 mins. who ever finishes the quickest wins.

15lbs is a significant amount of weight, it means your robot have to be fairly big and powerful.  For comparison, a standard hobby servo (hs-322) has 3.7g*cm of torque, that equates to only 1/2lbf for a 6 inch arm.  And remember, the more powerful the servo, the more expensive it is.

sorry it was 50 grams, the robot cant be over the weight of 50lbs at lease the base cant be ^_^
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 05:57:45 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline MaltiK

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2008, 05:53:12 PM »
You cant go wrong with HS645 MG servos for the arm
and an Axon, $50 MCU, Arduino, or Picaxe 28x1 for the board

Warranty

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2008, 06:14:03 PM »
You cant go wrong with HS645 MG servos for the arm
and an Axon, $50 MCU, Arduino, or Picaxe 28x1 for the board



Cool thanks man, I will leave the arm out for now until i get the base but thank you for your help, im am now looking for R/C Reciever with the crystal, and 4 good but cheap DC Motors.

I have created a 3d model with SketchUp NOTE:It was my first time ^_^

PS, Do you have links for those parts?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 06:15:28 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline szhang

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2008, 06:26:52 PM »
50 grams is MUCH more managable.

For a maze you need more than 1 sonar (especially if you want to move fast), ideally something like 16 sonars would be best  ;), but I guess 3-4 would do.  And if the maze is small, you probably want IR rangefinders instead.

You might want this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=319  It is a dual motor gearbox, which sounds like what you need.

You could also modify a standard servo to run continously.  That has the advantage of working with the RC receiver.

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2008, 07:03:30 PM »
50 grams is MUCH more managable.

For a maze you need more than 1 sonar (especially if you want to move fast), ideally something like 16 sonars would be best  ;), but I guess 3-4 would do.  And if the maze is small, you probably want IR rangefinders instead.

You might want this: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=319  It is a dual motor gearbox, which sounds like what you need.

You could also modify a standard servo to run continously.  That has the advantage of working with the RC receiver.



Cools thanks the maze is about the same size as the MOBOT, just a little sharper turns and there our walls i guess it is not really a maze just to see how good the robot reacts to the walls and can it avoid it fast enough.

PS. Know any good trust worthy sites that sell IR rangefinders i think i will 1 is that good i will be using pan on where the sonar is placed at on my 3d picture. And any good DC Motors?

I found this IR Sensor.

|2x| Phidgets IR Distance Sensor Kit
http://www.robotshop.ca/phidgets-infrared-distance-sensor-kit-2.html?lang=en-us
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 07:14:12 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline paulstreats

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2008, 07:15:13 PM »
Solarbotics for motors.
(they sell them with gearheads attached. You cant just use motors without any gearing). Also you need to look at h-bridges for controlling them.

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2008, 07:25:33 PM »

Offline paulstreats

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2008, 07:30:54 PM »
I would say that they will be fine. (note the stall torque. This is the rating of amps that your h-bridge will have to be able to achieve without burning out).

Also it mentions a strange twist on the gearhead. If you look at the picture the motor twisted an an ngle with the gearhead. This might make mounting them a problem? I would prefer to have them set square and flush.

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 07:54:10 PM »
OK i was set with that but now that i think of it, it will be a pain in the but, How about this one and what would be good h-bridge? how many ect sorry i am a noob at buying the parts...

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/p/4224-20-1-28mm-Planetary-Gearmotor-RS-385-Motor.aspx

Offline szhang

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2008, 08:08:51 PM »
L298 should work for you.  Just one can drive two motors.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 08:09:58 PM by szhang »

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2008, 08:51:26 PM »
L298 should work for you.  Just one can drive two motors.


This one?
http://www.solarbotics.com/products/l298/

Im looking for a good microcontroller, i would like the axon but its two much...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 09:04:33 PM by AdvsNoob »

Offline szhang

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2008, 09:20:33 PM »
As I said, if you're going to buy the AVR programmer you should go with AVRs.  Most people use the ATMega8/16/168 series.

The axon is more like a complete control board, you'll save some money making your own board, but you need some experience to do that.  The Arduino's are cheaper, about 30 bucks.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 09:26:37 PM by szhang »

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2008, 11:00:52 PM »
As I said, if you're going to buy the AVR programmer you should go with AVRs.  Most people use the ATMega8/16/168 series.

The axon is more like a complete control board, you'll save some money making your own board, but you need some experience to do that.  The Arduino's are cheaper, about 30 bucks.


I think i will go with the Arduino, i am looking for some type of pack with the USB cable but if its not there ill just buy it seprate, now just to make sure this is the one i am looking at.

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=666

I am 99.9% sure its the right one ^_^

Offline dt

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Re: Robot Project (Need Help)
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2008, 12:58:18 AM »
So you're not making the gripper?  ::) I suggest putting the sensor on a servo so you can program it to "scan" the area  :o

Offline Ro-Bot-X

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2008, 06:11:35 AM »
Yeah, that's the Arduino, all built version. You will also need a shield, to be able to make the 3 pin headers for sensors and servos, but it comes out as a kit: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7914 so you need to solder and to actually make the connections for the 3 pin headers that are not documented. We may be able to give you hints in that direction.

But you will be better off buying Airman00"s Roboduino, that will have the 3 pin headers allready installed. You may read about it here: http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=5584.msg45046#msg45046
Check out the uBotino robot controller!

Offline AdvsNoobTopic starter

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Re: Parts for my new project S.Y.T.H
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2008, 01:41:49 PM »
Yeah, that's the Arduino, all built version. You will also need a shield, to be able to make the 3 pin headers for sensors and servos, but it comes out as a kit: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=7914 so you need to solder and to actually make the connections for the 3 pin headers that are not documented. We may be able to give you hints in that direction.

But you will be better off buying Airman00"s Roboduino, that will have the 3 pin headers allready installed. You may read about it here: http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=5584.msg45046#msg45046


First of all i would like to say thanks to everyone who just posted a comment, all of them really helped me!

I think i might go with building my own, so that i might have something to show off to my school! ^_^ But of course i will be posting flayers for my school as well, i will be starting a robot battle club i was approved yesterday, so i am just asking if i am allowed that (Noob question lol)

But anyways do you think it will be hard or easy to make with your guys help? 1 Easy - 10 Hard

Or i will go with the other one but where do i get it, or maybe there is a tutorial to make it...

Thanks again everyone this forum really helped, when i post my video of the bot on youtube before the contest i will post links to this site!


SOCIETY OF ROBOTS!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Please Help.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 09:13:07 PM by AdvsNoob »

 


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