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Author Topic: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!  (Read 4791 times)

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Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« on: March 04, 2009, 05:37:04 PM »
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9086
No words.... No....



Sorry for shouting....

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Offline Canabots

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 05:55:11 PM »
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9086
No words.... No....


GASP!!!!!! Ditto!!!!!! :o

Wow! That price doesn't look too bad either! This would be awesome for anyone doing some sort of exploration robot. This probably opens up lots of possibilities for UAVs too!

WOW!

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Offline airman00

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 06:01:55 PM »
holy crap
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Offline Razor Concepts

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 06:19:06 PM »
Line of sight.. even small obstacles will block the signal. I have trouble imagining 100mw traveling 15 miles?? Maybe in the desert or something.

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 07:04:03 PM »
Sure... But with a air UAV it's far useful....
Even 200m without line of sight is very good for a ground vehicle....

I'm gonna get some and test 'em....
Bad thing antenna comes extra.... :P
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Offline Hawaii00000

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2009, 10:45:07 PM »
Excuse my ignorance but ummmmm whats it for? Is it some kind of wireless serial transmitter?
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Offline cosminprund

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 02:38:31 AM »
Quote
The modules are optimized for use in US and Canada.

Is that a nice way of saying those modules are illegal in Europe? We've got GSM Cell networks on 900Mhz.

Offline Soeren

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 02:57:02 AM »
Hi,

Yes, they'll probably be illegal in Europe.
Don't see why anyone would buy them though - two old cell phones (can be found in dumpsters sometimes) and a bit of hacking, and you have a 2W encrypted link :D
Regards,
Søren

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Offline airman00

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 06:52:07 AM »
two old cell phones (can be found in dumpsters sometimes) and a bit of hacking, and you have a 2W encrypted link :D

with or without paying monthly for service?
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 07:10:51 AM »
without paying, the radio modules can be used independantly. The paying part is contained within the phone companies communications software layer.

the radio modules would normally connect straight to a proper transmitter / receiver station which then routes your call either through existing land lines or satellites. its only here that you are using their service. so if you dont let the radio module connect to the station then theres no need for any charges cause youre not using their services.

Offline Soeren

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 04:16:45 PM »
Oh well, there's still one charge remaining... Your batteries   ::)
Regards,
Søren

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Offline airman00

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 04:19:15 PM »
without paying, the radio modules can be used independantly. The paying part is contained within the phone companies communications software layer.

the radio modules would normally connect straight to a proper transmitter / receiver station which then routes your call either through existing land lines or satellites. its only here that you are using their service. so if you dont let the radio module connect to the station then theres no need for any charges cause youre not using their services.
any resources online for it?
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Offline HDL_CinC_Dragon

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 10:00:21 PM »
It just so happens I have 3 or 4 old cell phones sitting on my shelf across the room right now :D Please have some good links PaulStreats :)
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Offline tralfam

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2009, 05:32:49 PM »
Hi,

Yes, they'll probably be illegal in Europe.
Don't see why anyone would buy them though - two old cell phones (can be found in dumpsters sometimes) and a bit of hacking, and you have a 2W encrypted link :D


Are any good write-ups on how to do this available? It sounds intriguing.

Offline Soeren

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2009, 10:35:25 PM »
Hi,

Are any good write-ups on how to do this available? It sounds intriguing.
I have seen a few on the net years ago, but don't know if they're still around. However, it's just a matter of whether you can find datasheets for the chipsets.

Another source for long distance UHF TX/RX is PMR's, some of them are sold as being able to do 8 km (in open country).
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2009, 06:55:59 AM »
I hate it to say again.... but.... links!!!! please!!!
That mods are very very nice!!!!!!!
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P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

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Offline Admin

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 12:23:12 AM »
Hmmm, despite the 'up to 15 mile range', it says '9.6 kbps throughput data rate' . . . impressive range, but you can't transmit much at that data rate . . .

But hey, transmitting GPS coordinates to find your UAV after it runs away could be useful!

Offline Asellith

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 05:54:31 AM »
umm hacking old cell phones to transmit your own data is illegal. Using the cell phone with a carrier is ok because they have the license to transmit on those frequencies. Once you start hacking it to send your own signals then your gonna confuse cell towers and provide noise on those frequencies. Then the cell company is gonna investigate who is transmitting on their stuff and using really cool equipment (I have played with some of it) find you and then call the cops. Unless the FCC finds you first. That and cell phones use GSM or CDMA encoding so unless you encode your data into one of those protocols then your not going to get anything on the other end. Not sure about GSM but when your cell phone transmits it uses a bandwidth that is huge and spreads the signal over a large area then uses complex math to extract the signal from the noise. You put a standard signal in that bandwidth and every cell phone in the area will be get interference.
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Offline MaltiK

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2009, 06:39:57 AM »
Such an interesting subject, and I dont see how it is illegal if you are not using their pay-as-you-go service.
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Offline Asellith

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 07:38:08 AM »
We are talking about hacking the radio to transmit a different signal. As it is now the signal is sent out and captured by a tower then routed and sent to the second phone. This takes their system and paid services. Now you hack the phone and build a transmitter/receiver pair out of them. This sends illegal signals inside their protected bands. That is whats illegal. Not the hacking but the transmitting. Same as if you reconfigure your ham radio equipment to broadcast at 89.5 Mhz in Pensacola, Fl. then I come hunt you down and send the cops after you because I have the legal right given by the FCC to broadcast in this area on the frequency. Well my company has the right not me personally but you get the idea. Even if no one is using the frequency they are protected by the FCC. Only a few frequencies are open to transmit on and most of those require a license with the exception of CB but only a low wattage.
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Offline Soeren

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2009, 10:15:06 AM »
Hi,

umm hacking old cell phones to transmit your own data is illegal.
So is making transmitters for eg. the broadcast band (like bugs), but that doesn't seem to stop people doing it.


Once you start hacking it to send your own signals then your gonna confuse cell towers and provide noise on those frequencies.
Noise?
Towers ain't gonna be confused, because you obviously change the frequency (else you'd get interference from any phone happening to be using "your" channel at the time).


Then the cell company is gonna investigate who is transmitting on their stuff
They couldn't care less, as long as you don't interfere with their service, which you don't.


and using really cool equipment (I have played with some of it) find you and then call the cops. Unless the FCC finds you first.
It's gotta be, not just clever, but really really clever, since GSM, CDMA etc. transmit in short bursts.


and cell phones use GSM or CDMA encoding so unless you encode your data into one of those protocols then your not going to get anything on the other end.
Nonsense, you use the two phones own circuits, no big deal.


Not sure about GSM but when your cell phone transmits it uses a bandwidth that is huge and spreads the signal over a large area then uses complex math to extract the signal from the noise. You put a standard signal in that bandwidth and every cell phone in the area will be get interference.
GSM, CDMA, GPRS etc. are what's used for ell phones, are you perhaps referring to very old and outdated technology with your term "cell phone"?

Still, it's nonsense.
First of all, it is not allowed to use a "huge bandwidth", second, it would be a waste of power - on the contrary, it uses a narrow bandwidth.
Cell phones are very resilient to interference and noise on the input, due to clever software - perhaps you confused "receive" and "transmit" ?
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
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Offline jsmoker

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 12:04:20 PM »
Hmmm, despite the 'up to 15 mile range', it says '9.6 kbps throughput data rate' . . . impressive range, but you can't transmit much at that data rate . . .

But hey, transmitting GPS coordinates to find your UAV after it runs away could be useful!

Ditto on that.  Especially if you're trying to get any real time sensor data.  But the thought of a 15 mile range is pretty cool.

Offline MrWizard

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2009, 01:43:19 PM »
Oh well, there's still one charge remaining... Your batteries   ::)

Thats correct they are illegal in Europe, in a lot of countries more also. Maximum power allowed in Europe is 100mW (free)  above these figures you are going to need a permit.
900Mhz is the old GSM network, but still in use....
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 01:57:42 PM by MrWizard »

Offline Soeren

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2009, 05:59:26 PM »
Hi,

Oh well, there's still one charge remaining... Your batteries   ::)

Thats correct they are illegal in Europe, in a lot of countries more also. Maximum power allowed in Europe is 100mW (free)  above these figures you are going to need a permit.
900Mhz is the old GSM network, but still in use....
I fail to see the connection with the quote from me?

Sure it's illegal, like bugs which, for some reason, is one of the most wanted circuits world wide for strange reasons - it's rare to find a request for a small receiver to go with it.

*Phew* sure glad I didn't post schematics for a cheaply build transmitter/receiver pair for data comms - wouldn't wanna offend any §-pushers.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2009, 12:29:46 AM »
Just so everyone is aware of this - in the US you are allowed to transmit anything on any frequency if:

- its a short term one off experiment (such as for hobbyists)
- it causes no serious interference, or interference is minimized best as possible
- it in no way interferes with emergency service frequencies and systems

For example, you can block cell phone transmissions if it lasted just a few minutes, is considered an experiment, and its done where the likely hood of it disabling emergency phone calls is minimized. But it'd be illegal to do it long term and/or with the sole intention of causing interference.

Offline TrickyNekroTopic starter

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2009, 04:54:06 AM »
That's why they can only nag about 2.4GHz model pilot systems...
They are interfere with WiFi companies selling internet on wifi....
But since 2.4GHz is a free band.... Not exceptions...
I think that a 800 something or a 900 something frequency that it's close to mobile freqs...
is open... take an example ZigBee modules...
And ZigBee Pro is supposed to have some miles range...
Since frequency pollution is great in many many countries, only smart software can
solve the channel problem...
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P.S. I've been inactive for almost a year... Don't give promises but I'll try to complete my tutorials. I'll let you know when..

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Offline airman00

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2009, 09:08:36 AM »
That's why they can only nag about 2.4GHz model pilot systems...
They are interfere with WiFi companies selling internet on wifi....
But since 2.4GHz is a free band.... Not exceptions...
I think that a 800 something or a 900 something frequency that it's close to mobile freqs...
is open... take an example ZigBee modules...
And ZigBee Pro is supposed to have some miles range...
Since frequency pollution is great in many many countries, only smart software can
solve the channel problem...

ISM Bands are free for everyone - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
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Offline paulstreats

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 09:44:00 AM »
There is a book called "hacking mobile phones" that goes through how to independantly use their radio modules explaining the concepts and that most people dont realise that they are only radio transcievers.

Any web searches just seem to pull up bluejacking techniques or ways to hack into non existent fictional free bands for phone calls (no matter what radio band you use, when the phone registers at the station and makes a call request you get charged). Hacking the actual radio transcievers for direct communication seems to have faded away into history... probably because hacking them can give terrorists an untraceable remote detonation unit

Offline frank26080115

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2009, 10:50:38 PM »
We are talking about hacking the radio to transmit a different signal. As it is now the signal is sent out and captured by a tower then routed and sent to the second phone. This takes their system and paid services. Now you hack the phone and build a transmitter/receiver pair out of them. This sends illegal signals inside their protected bands. That is whats illegal. Not the hacking but the transmitting. Same as if you reconfigure your ham radio equipment to broadcast at 89.5 Mhz in Pensacola, Fl. then I come hunt you down and send the cops after you because I have the legal right given by the FCC to broadcast in this area on the frequency. Well my company has the right not me personally but you get the idea. Even if no one is using the frequency they are protected by the FCC. Only a few frequencies are open to transmit on and most of those require a license with the exception of CB but only a low wattage.

Question, hypothetically, if you were a radio station and somebody who doesn't like you broadcasts on your frequency (completely overpowering your signal within 1km of his house, lets say), what would the response be and how fast would it be? I mean, would it be the police who get involved? Would they make an arrest? Immediately?
How fast can you pinpoint a location and what kind of evidence do you need before anything is done about it?

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Re: OMFG!!!!! Look at that range!!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2009, 12:07:48 AM »
Quote
Question, hypothetically, if you were a radio station and somebody who doesn't like you broadcasts on your frequency (completely overpowering your signal within 1km of his house, lets say), what would the response be and how fast would it be? I mean, would it be the police who get involved? Would they make an arrest? Immediately?
How fast can you pinpoint a location and what kind of evidence do you need before anything is done about it?
I don't know the whole answer to this, but I know part of it from experience . . .

When I was young (12 years old? don't remember) I found a schematic for a frequency jammer. I quickly figured out how to tune it with a pot to jam radio stations of my choice. Then I learned that hooking up a 40 ft antenna to it gave it incredible range . . .

To jam properly you need a radio listening to that channel, so when I turn my jammer on I can hear the radio stop working. Well after playing around with it for 30 or so minutes the radio channel suddenly stopped playing music.

Instead it played loud tonal beeps and said something like 'testing service' or something like that. I assume they were trying to figure out what the interference was and localize it, too.

I never tried that again . . . :P

 


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