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Author Topic: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?  (Read 4648 times)

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Offline JdogTopic starter

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Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« on: March 06, 2009, 07:00:40 PM »
I'm brand new to eagle and I was hoping someone would be kind enough to check over my schematic. I added a Uart because I might as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was also wondering if I had a good layout for the board, I haven't routed it yet, so it's just airwires.

EDIT:
I just realized I picked the wrong capacitor. Attached is the new schematic and board.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 07:51:04 PM by Jdog »

Offline Razor Concepts

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 08:42:53 PM »
AREF and AVCC should both be connected to VCC

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 10:23:02 PM »
AREF and AVCC should both be connected to VCC
Thank you very much?

Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 10:41:55 PM »
Hi,

I was also wondering if I had a good layout for the board, I haven't routed it yet, so it's just airwires.

How are anybody to judge your layout if you haven't routed your board?
The routing is a quite important quality in a layout (actually, you don't have a layout at all, until it's routed).

Please repost when you're done routing it.
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 10:46:08 PM »
Hi,

I was also wondering if I had a good layout for the board, I haven't routed it yet, so it's just airwires.

How are anybody to judge your layout if you haven't routed your board?
The routing is a quite important quality in a layout (actually, you don't have a layout at all, until it's routed).

Please repost when you're done routing it.

I don't really know why I asked about the board yet. I didn't want to bother routing it before I made sure the schematic was correct.
Heres the new schematic. Ill give the routing a shot now and then Ill post the board.

Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 11:11:27 PM »
Hi,

You have a lot of junctions where you shouldn't and in at least one place you are missing a junction.
Don't draw wires across components.
Convention is: Positive voltages should be upwards, ground and negative downwards.
You have no capacitance on neither input nor output of the voltage regulator!
Using buses would clear up a lot of the wiring mess.
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 11:23:58 PM »
Hi,

You have a lot of junctions where you shouldn't and in at least one place you are missing a junction.
Don't draw wires across components.
I've never drawn circuit diagrams before so as long as it won't affect the final product right now, I'm not going to fix it because that means redoing the entire thing, but I'll remember that for next time.
Quote
Convention is: Positive voltages should be upwards, ground and negative downwards.
Once again, I'll remember for next time, but how can you tell the difference between downwards and upwards if it's just a vertical line.

Quote
You have no capacitance on neither input nor output of the voltage regulator!
I do have capacitance it's just right above the output bus, unless you mean putting it somewhere else, but the 220uf capacitor is connecting +5v and gnd.
Quote
Using buses would clear up a lot of the wiring mess.
I wish I would have known about busses when I made that. I just figured out what they are, and they would have saved me so much work.

Thank you for answering, sorry for my noobness.

EDIT:
Also, I took a shot at routing it. The leftover airwires I'll connect by wire. The weird thing is is that the voltage regulator doesn't have pads on it, so when I try to route a wire going to it, it turns red. I attached the board.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 01:17:18 AM by Jdog »

Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 04:28:24 PM »
Hi,


Here is a schematic using buses to go on with if you like http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b2.sch.
I have changed the voltage regulator to a LM2940, since the one you used isn't through hole mounted and the LM2940 also has a lower dropout.

I have kept the terms Vcc and Gnd, even if they are incorrect, since it seems to be what people use here.
When using digital circuitry, the terms should be Vdd for positive and Vss for negative - Vss could be coupled capacitively to Gnd if wanted, while keeping conventions.

I changed your Supply label (named +5V) to B+, since the battery is not +5V (the Vcc line is, on the other hand).

Please check if I got any lines wrong.

I think some of my points will come through when you compare the schematics.


Your last board layout won't work with the screw terminals you have chosen. You have put them in a way that they occupy each others space on the board.
You have chosen screw terminals like the one shown here:


Did you mean to use those, or did you just not find the pin-headers that most people use?
Pinheaders shown here:
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2009, 05:54:53 PM »
Firstly, thank you so much. I did mean to use the pin headers not the screw terminals. I understand the concept of busses but how did you make the circles that say vcc and things like that. I still don't know what you mean by
Quote
Convention is: Positive voltages should be upwards, ground and negative downwards.
.
Also I'm now in the process of checking it.  When I do that I'll try the board and upload it.

EDIT:

I checked the schematic and I just have 1 problem with it. Why do you have 2 capacitors not included in the $50 robot schematic.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 07:09:06 PM by Jdog »

Offline MrWizard

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 04:36:28 PM »
Better check for wire-codes on devices you want to attach or possibly going to attach.

You can create the busses according to these wire-colors , so devices can be attached without modifying the headers everytime.

This is a practical solution.


Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 04:38:35 PM »
Hi,


I did mean to use the pin headers not the screw terminals.
OK.


how did you make the circles that say vcc and things like that.
They're in one of the "Supply" libraries.


I still don't know what you mean by
Quote
Convention is: Positive voltages should be upwards, ground and negative downwards.
You noticed the circles "VCC", they're upwards while the ""GND"-bars are downward. Same with the polarized caps, + is up (unless special considerations dictates otherwise).
Btw. I had to turn one of your caps around, since it was connected in the "Kaboom direction".


I checked the schematic and I just have 1 problem with it. Why do you have 2 capacitors not included in the $50 robot schematic.
So that you won't have any problems with it  ;D
Voltage regulators needs capacitance at both input and output (and physically close to the voltage regulator), or they will be prone to oscillations, which usually makes them either commit seppuko, or ghost some of the components it supplies.
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 06:07:23 PM »
Quote
Voltage regulators needs capacitance at both input and output (and physically close to the voltage regulator), or they will be prone to oscillations, which usually makes them either commit seppuko, or ghost some of the components it supplies.
What value range of capacitors should I use (I'm guessing somewhere between 150 and 250 uf)?

I also made the board design. Any feedback would be appreciated. Once again thank you so much for taking the time to help me. Also I'm wondering if I should make gnd and power polygons in the leftover space.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 06:28:16 PM by Jdog »

Offline MrWizard

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 11:50:34 AM »
Stick with the original design 220mF - 12-16v, for the oscilator you can use 22 pF  ceremic with A 16.000 OR 20.000 oscilator crystal.


Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 12:54:13 PM »
I was following this tutorial on how to make it able to do by hand by adding the hobby.dru to the design rules, but when I make the board, I think the pads are too big and the drc says there isn't enough clearance between them. How could I fix this but still in a way that I can do it by hand?

Edit:
This is the tutorial, I forgot to post it.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-hobbyist-PCBs-with-professional-CAD-tools-by-/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 08:25:56 PM by Jdog »

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2009, 05:24:02 PM »
Is it possible to drill out the holes for the components using standard settings without pulling off the pads by hand?

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2009, 06:30:29 PM »
Is it possible to drill out the holes for the components using standard settings without pulling off the pads by hand?
what do you mean by standard settings?
Howdy

Offline Razor Concepts

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 06:41:43 PM by Razor Concepts »

Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2009, 07:26:03 PM »
Hi,

What value range of capacitors should I use (I'm guessing somewhere between 150 and 250 uf)?

I also made the board design. Any feedback would be appreciated. Once again thank you so much for taking the time to help me. Also I'm wondering if I should make gnd and power polygons in the leftover space.

Sorry for the delay, I made these files on the 10th. but forgot to upload them and then forgot about them due to some party arrangements I had to deal with.
http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.sch
http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.pcb
They should tell you what you like to know.
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2009, 07:39:22 PM »
Hi,

Stick with the original design 220mF - 12-16v, for the oscilator you can use 22 pF  ceremic with A 16.000 OR 20.000 oscilator crystal.
220 mF (milliFarad) would be around 1000 times too large.  ;)
(What do you americans have against using the correct "" symbol?).

No oscillator is used in this application.
If an oscillator was used there would be no reason for 22pF caps, as oscillators are complete circuits by themselves.
For a crystal, 22pF might be needed, but allways use the lowest capacitance that will start the oscillator reliably, as smaller caps equals lower deviation of the frequency.
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2009, 08:48:37 PM »
Try this attached DRU:

http://www.instructables.com/file/FJ043CWRTMEP27Y3QS/


I tried that originally, but when i did the drc it said there was not enough spacing between the pads.

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2009, 08:52:47 PM »
Is it possible to drill out the holes for the components using standard settings without pulling off the pads by hand?
what do you mean by standard settings?

Hi, I meant the original settings that eagle had when I first opened it, before I loaded the hobby.dru file.

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I made these files on the 10th. but forgot to upload them and then forgot about them due to some party arrangements I had to deal with.
http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.sch
http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.pcb
They should tell you what you like to know.


The second link which is Im assuming for the board should have a .brd extension not .pcb and is therefore not working.

Quote
Hi,

(What do you americans have against using the correct "" symbol?).


It's not on the keyboard :P, although he should have at least typed uF not mF.

Also, just making sure, 220nF is the same as .22 uF right?

Edit:
Oops, accidentally double posted, sorry.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 09:02:42 PM by Jdog »

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2009, 09:16:53 PM »
is there a way to add a key shortcut to type the symbol? eg "ctrl+y"
Howdy

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2009, 09:45:51 PM »
is there a way to add a key shortcut to type the symbol? eg "ctrl+y"

Only ones that will run programs: http://snarkhunt.blogspot.com/2005/04/dirt-cheap-macros.html
But let's not get off topic. ;)

Offline airman00

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2009, 10:30:48 PM »
is there a way to add a key shortcut to type the symbol? eg "ctrl+y"
on mac you do Option+m
Check out the Roboduino, Arduino-compatible board!


Link: http://curiousinventor.com/kits/roboduino

www.Narobo.com

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2009, 10:35:11 PM »
grrr, i dont use macs anymore :(
Howdy

Offline Soeren

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2009, 05:54:29 AM »
Hi,

http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.pcb


The second link which is Im assuming for the board should have a .brd extension not .pcb and is therefore not working.

It's not on the keyboard :P, although he should have at least typed uF not mF.

Also, just making sure, 220nF is the same as .22 uF right?

You saw it and yet you didn't just try changing the extension?
 http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.brd
Yeah, I just made the typo when I wrote it here, it's correct on the server of course.

Yes it IS on the keyboard, just hold down the right ALT (AltGr) and press "m" and you get "" (now there's no excuse anymore   :P)

Yes, 1 is 1,000n is 1,000,000p (and is 0.001m).
Regards,
Sren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2009, 01:04:30 PM »
Hi,
Yes it IS on the keyboard, just hold down the right ALT (AltGr) and press "m" and you get "" (now there's no excuse anymore   :P)
doesnt work on mine so i will continue to use uf hehe :P
Howdy

Offline MrWizard

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2009, 02:54:01 PM »
Hi,

Stick with the original design 220mF - 12-16v, for the oscilator you can use 22 pF  ceremic with A 16.000 OR 20.000 oscilator crystal.
220 mF (milliFarad) would be around 1000 times too large.  ;)
(What do you americans have against using the correct "" symbol?).

No oscillator is used in this application.
If an oscillator was used there would be no reason for 22pF caps, as oscillators are complete circuits by themselves.
For a crystal, 22pF might be needed, but allways use the lowest capacitance that will start the oscillator reliably, as smaller caps equals lower deviation of the frequency.


Sorry Soeren , you are correct made a type over the capacitor. 220F is correct. In the original design the internal oscilator will be used, but if you want more speed you could make holes/ connections for the crystal in advance. Yes if you look at (oscilator) crystel data-sheets 22pF will do fine. 18-30pF are acceptable for 16.000 -> 20.000.

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2009, 03:17:37 PM »
Quote
You saw it and yet you didn't just try changing the extension?
 http://That.Homepage.dk/DL/50_board_2b3.brd

I was tired and wasn't really thinking. Any way, that board looks great thank you so much. Just wondering, would it be worth it to make power and gnd polygons, or would that be too difficult and unnecessary. Also how did you make the white lines showing that you would connect those by wire later,  how did you make the mounting holes, or did you just use the hole button, and how did you have it displaying in a grid?

Edit:
I just noticed that you don't have ground on the board either.

Double edit:
I noticed you had a ground polygon mapped out but you didn't hit ratsnest to make it actually show as routed. That answers two of my questions. Also, how would I go about adding a silkscreen to a board?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 03:29:47 PM by Jdog »

Offline JdogTopic starter

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Re: Could someone please check my $50 robot eagle schematic?
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2009, 01:55:30 PM »
Voltage regulators needs capacitance at both input and output (and physically close to the voltage regulator), or they will be prone to oscillations, which usually makes them either commit seppuko, or ghost some of the components it supplies.

Why doesn't the original $50 robot board design have capacitors at both in and out of the regulator?

 


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