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Author Topic: Double sided PCB's... I need some help  (Read 2653 times)

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Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« on: April 06, 2009, 01:28:44 PM »
I am trying to make my own augmented MCU board's (multiple types with different brands of MCU's), but the thing is I need to make them double sided for my requirements, and that's where I run into a problem. I don't know how I will be able to do it.

If anyone has any tips or help they can give, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Kurt.
Kurt

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2009, 01:51:12 PM »
is this for home etching? so please explain what you want help with? which aspect of double sided pcbs, drawing em in eagle, ironing em on etching them. what?
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Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 01:54:06 PM »
I am going to home etch it. The aspect I want help with is the lining up both sides part, and a PCB drawing program that can flip the side that needs to be flipped, appropriately.
Kurt

Offline GearMotion

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 02:55:03 PM »
I am going to home etch it. The aspect I want help with is the lining up both sides part, and a PCB drawing program that can flip the side that needs to be flipped, appropriately.

If you are ironing on the PCB pattern, do one side then drill registration holes (far apart) and line up the 2nd side.

If you produce a GIF or JPG before printing, flip it with IrfanView. (Google IrfanView to find it.)

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 03:26:07 PM »
are you using through hole components or smd? also the easiest way to do this is do draw both from the top and the flip them it helps letting you see what your board will look like kinda. the only hard part with double sided pcbs is that you have to iron both sides on at the same time which can get tricky with the alignment... ive only ever done single sided so i dont know from experience but the principle is pretty much the same.
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Offline GearMotion

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 03:33:31 PM »
. the only hard part with double sided pcbs is that you have to iron both sides on at the same time which can get tricky with the alignment... ive only ever done single sided so i dont know from experience but the principle is pretty much the same.

If you iron one side first, then the other, be sure to cover the first side with parchment paper so the heat doesn't make your finished side stick to your surface.

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 03:53:11 PM »
yes but my teacher told me that sometimes it can screw up your work on one side if you iron a double sided copper clad one side at a time. also be sure to check traces before you etch it, its a lot easier to see bridges on close traces before etching.
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Offline dunk

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 04:13:42 PM »
i always cut the copper clad board to size first.
i also always have a ground plane the size of the board.
then just line both ground plane's with the corner of the copper board.
don't peel the first side off until you have ironed on the 2nd side.

it takes a bit of practice to get the iron temperature and pressure right so you don't smudge the image but it works.

repair any gaps in your traces with permanent marker pen before you etch.

as for software to flip the image of the top side, Eagle has a check box that does that for you.


dunk.

Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 06:50:32 PM »
Thank so very much for all of your tips/help.
Kurt

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 01:42:55 AM »
will sharpies work for filling in gaps?
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Offline dunk

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 10:51:25 AM »
will sharpies work for filling in gaps?
yup. that's what i use.
you do have to make sure you don't over etch them though as the marker pen is not as resistant as the toner.
make sure you agitate regularly during the etching process.

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Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 11:04:10 AM »
I know that when I made my single sided boards I had too layer the ink a lot and let it dry for a bit.
But, I notice that MG Chemicals has a "Etch Resistant Marker", which is Sharpie brand, does that one work better?
Kurt

Offline GearMotion

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2009, 11:13:04 AM »
"Making Printed Circuit Boards" by Jan Axelson

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Printed-Circuit-Boards-Axelson/dp/0830639519/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239124288&sr=8-2

Excellent book covers everything you need to know to make your own circuit boards, even had double-sided tips.

(I have a signed copy. :-) )

Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2009, 12:57:53 PM »
I saw that book in store on the weekend, but it was $120, and I don't want to spend that much on any book but school ones, do you have any other suggestions.
Kurt

Offline GearMotion

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 01:40:17 PM »
I saw that book in store on the weekend, but it was $120, and I don't want to spend that much on any book but school ones, do you have any other suggestions.


Yikes! I looked around and even found it for $300!

That is a shame: The cover price listed on the book is $22.95.

I consider it to be the definitive work on making your own printed circuit boards. I prize my copy. Any other book I've looked at pales in comparison.

Having said that, then, perhaps your best bet is to gleam some nuggets of information from the web, starting with the Gootee pages:

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm




Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2009, 04:58:16 PM »
Wow, I've read the link and it gave me a new light on PCB making, thanks.
Kurt

Offline GearMotion

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2009, 05:02:12 PM »
Wow, I've read the link and it gave me a new light on PCB making, thanks.

Great! I'm glad I could be helpful!

Offline galannthegreatTopic starter

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2009, 05:09:18 PM »
and now that's 9!!! :)

But if I ever see that book for 50 bucks or less I'll yoink it in a heartbeat because my buddy is now telling me that he had a copy (and lost it, how convenient), and he said that book is almost necessary for making good boards, so something like that means I should be on the lookout.

Thanks again :)
Kurt

Offline GearMotion

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Re: Double sided PCB's... I need some help
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2009, 06:16:03 PM »
 :) Thanks!

Hey - now I realize I have a valuable book in my library. A rare book. A collector's item. And signed by the Author.  8)

Yes, the book is well worth the $50 - if you can find a copy for that.


Here is an ebay listing for the book:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MAKING-PRINTED-CIRCUIT-BOARDS-Jan-Axelson_W0QQitemZ190278315177QQihZ009QQcategoryZ163QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

 


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