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Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Collaboration request
« on: April 15, 2009, 06:08:21 AM »
Need an adventure to brighten up your day? Here is a deal you shouldn't refuse (but most probably will)
Here is what I have to offer, I have a design for a HD wheel bot platform, it is designed to run out side, and in rough terrain, it is large (36"x18") designed to run on 4, 13" tires, two  gearmotors, (one on each side).
I have tried to design in ample room, for options and accessories, batteries and motors on the lower deck, control and electronics on the upper deck. I used 3/4" axles, tapered roller hearings and seals all the way around.
Here is the deal and the catch, if anyone here, wants to give a go at building this monster, let me know via PM or email. If you have a good friend that owns, or works at a welding/ machine shop, or if you can weld and /or operate machine shop tools it shouldn't be a real big problem to make. I will provide drawings in svg format, or upon request I can provide dxf/dwg files FREE! for a limited time.
Here is the catch If you take on this project I would require documentation on the building and testing processes, in text and video/still images.
Any takers?
Thanks for reading Ryan/TSPCo

Offline dellagd

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 06:31:05 AM »
are you asking us to build the robot for you? ???
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 10:03:05 AM by dellagd »
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Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 04:50:59 PM »
Not exactly you build it for you, or your customers, I just want to see how it works out. that is all.
If it works out there could be a market that you could control. Sell what you want build one for your self and play with it, trying different control approaches. I could provide a kit with all the parts, but at this time that is not I want to do. Build it test it, make modifications, make suggestions for improvements, that would increase the marketability what ever, I just want to know what you did and why.
Anybody else?
 ;)

Offline Razor Concepts

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 04:54:46 PM »
Off-road vehicle without suspension?  :-X

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 05:14:35 PM »
Yep suspension would get too complicated.and costly but if you want to suspend your version be my guest. I did consider this option but with all the custom splined shafts and special parts, I dismissed it.

Here is an example of my marketing concept, Joe Smith, buys a unit and within a few months, he has a bearing lockup, he can go to any decent parts store and buy a new bearing for under 10 bucks, get a new seal while he is there, repack the bearing and reinstall the seal, he is off and running inside of a couple of hours.
But there is one issue, the axle support sub assembly, is custom made, and he would have to buy a new one. Or have one made, My initial quote on this assembly came in at about $150 retail, of course in a larger quantity,l that price would drop drastically. If I have 100 of each of the parts made, the retail price could be $50 a pop complete, perhaps lower.
I have spent years trying to get this thing designed mainly from standard off the shelf parts, steel you can buy at any local welding shop, the sprockets from any decent industrial supply house, or online for that matter.
And so it goes.
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Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 06:05:04 PM »
Ok guys (and gals) here is my concept of this project, you will notice attachments on each end, since this thing could weigh up to 150 pounds I felt handles might be in order, however these are optional. If built correctly it should have no problem being "driven" up a ramp into a pickup. Cameras could be mounted inside the front (blue portion) for navigation, in the case of security/survey work, in a remotely operated mode. Like I wrote in my original post, there should be ample room in the upper section to, for whatever you want to put in there.

Take a look and let me know your thoughts.

Offline Razor Concepts

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 06:48:03 PM »
Maybe an option for tank treads instead of wheels?

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 07:15:24 PM »
I thought about that also, if you know something I don't, as to where to get such items, at a reasonable cost, and the supporting components, please share, the only ones I could find are real pricey, but it is your machine too, gofer it!

Offline madchimp

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 05:52:06 AM »
Rough terrain no suspension? Not good. Can you say very erratic bouncing all over. When I was into R/C years back just going from a basic R/C truck to a Race truck there was a huge difference in their abilities to hand rough terrain mostly due to the difference in the quality of the suspension design and components. The basic truck would be limited to a slow crawl in rougher terrain bouncing all over while the race truck would just glide over the rough terrain. If you are truly trying to create something useful and innovative why not design a suspension for it using inexpensive standard parts?

Why not build this yourself?

Also not to be mean but what qualifies you to design a mobile platform? After all you are asking that someone else put their time and money into an unproven design from a complete stranger.

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 06:10:54 AM »
Your opinion is appreciated, all I asked was if any one was interested in looking at the drawings for free then make up their own mind. If they don't to take it on that is their option. No cost or obligation at all.
Thanks

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 05:18:21 PM »
Standard suspension parts for a 150 pound machine where?

Why not build it my self? you asked, well there a number of factors one of them is time, a disabled wife, that can't work, therefore low cash flow, any questions?

What qualifies me to design a mobile robotic platform? Nothing unless you count 30+ years working in Industrial MRO.

unproven platform?,

As a whole yes it is unproven, if you break it down into components, it looks a bit different,
Tires and wheels, bet you have some of those on your car/truck, they work reliably, right?

Steel axles, you probably have some of those too
Tapered roller bearings, not so much in today's cars, but still a proven component.

Steel axle housings, another proven component

A steel frame, got one of those? probably

DC gear motors been around for years, proven reliable.

Motor controllers, recent models very reliable, older ones not so much, but they worked.

Now back to the suspension issue, have you looked at the P3 AT? (google it), been in existence for many years in various versions. No suspension to be found, so enough of that discussion, for now, at least.
I would have replied more in detail earlier today, but I had to go to my day job.


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Offline galannthegreat

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 06:32:59 PM »
Well... you can probably find suspension that would work great for this in some sort of scooter or power chair, take a look around at local rehab shops and find out if they have some old parts for these things, and also check out mini quad (50-100cc) suspension, definately something to look at there.
Kurt

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 06:51:02 PM »
Well I don't have any rehab shops nearby, but you have a good point with the mini quad Idea, I will look into it. Thanks!

Offline galannthegreat

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 08:07:12 PM »
Yea, no problem, I personally was looking into them. But I have a recommendation, try and find the literal "Made in china" kind of brands (no name crap) because most likely they may have the parts that will be pretty cheap compared to any mainstream parts brands.

Hope this helps, and good luck on this 'bot. :)
Kurt

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 04:37:42 AM »
I looked around last night, but I didn't find anything so far, I have to wonder though, suspension on a skid steer machine, looks like a potential reliability problem to me, a simple system of any kind is potentially more reliable than a complex system, (fewer parts to have problems with) I designed this around components that have a long track record of "just working" if built and maintained properly. So, for now anyway, I will pass on a suspension.
Skid steer loaders have been around for decades, my axle systems are designed after a slid steer loader type of setup.
You have a hub to attach the wheel to,  an axle supported by bearings in a steel tube and a drive sprocket, all held together by a mechanical fastener, simple, reliable and it just works.

Offline Soeren

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2009, 01:50:33 AM »
Hi,

Using suspension in fairly slow going vehicles is a (common) misunderstanding, as they don't do anything good until eg. under fast cornering and similar dynamic activities.
In a slow going skid steering vehicle, a conventional suspension would probably both steal power and make steering less precise.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2009, 04:46:47 AM »
Not to mention that in a hard turn with a heavy machune at a slow speed, would create major stress on the A arms and there would be a good chance of serious damage.
Thanks for your logical comment ;)
Try to remember guys that using group 22 AGM batteries at 38 pounds each (2) and two gear motors at about 15 pounds  each (2) you are already at 106 pounds, then add the frame and any gizmos you want, then you can see why I wrote way back this machine could easily weigh 150 pounds ready to work. (yes work)
we are are not talking a toy here.

Oh btw the designed speed is 14.7 fps, that calculates to about 160 lbf-in of torque per motor, easy enough for  a wheel chair motor to accomplish.

Still no takers on the offer yet? amazing
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 04:52:03 AM by TSPCO »

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2009, 07:56:28 AM »
For those of you skeptics, how about a small detail drawing?
a corner joint perhaps? The drawing didn't convert 100% to jpg so here are some specs.
The top left drawing dimensions are, vertical outside 3.75", horizontal is 1.75" material thickness is .125" (could be made heavier say .1875".
The bolt(s) are grade 5 standard hardware, zinc plated, available at any good hardware/farm store.
The nuts are grade 5 "top lock" zinc plated steel, not as easy to find as the bolts, but can be found in a lot of places.
Questions? Concerns?

Waiting patiently...
Seems I forgot to color the bolt heads, no matter. I am sure you guys know what a bolt head looks like...
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 07:58:32 AM by TSPCO »

Offline ArcMan

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2009, 08:13:09 AM »
Hello.

I'm curious as to your rationale for bolting frame members together insteading of welding them together.  I welded the frame members of my yard robot together.  Welding provides a more rigid and just plain easier connection.  Are you planning for the frame to be disassembled?

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2009, 01:06:31 PM »
Welding the members is an option, but if one were to market say, a kit of parts bolting would be easier for the end user. In my original drawing everything is welded, except the wheel supports and of course the motors, and whatever attachments the end user buys or makes themselves. Hows that for rationale?

I have literally spent years observing what works and what doesn't, from a maintenance standpoint.
I designed this system to maintenance friendly, and if the end user wants a kit of parts (in a box that is easily shippable) he has that option, or he can select the assembled, welded version.
There you go.

The second drawing I posted here is to show the skeptics I mean business with this design, and it is not some random arrangement of parts I just threw together. A  lot of time , experience in industrial maintenance,  and research went in to it.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 06:45:09 AM by TSPCO »

Offline paulstreats

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2009, 05:38:08 PM »
Im a skeptic.

Im not sure what you are actually offering? .... design rights maybe?

but if its such a great idea then why havent you spent the time to market it yourself or sell the idea to a larger company like most radio control car manufacturers or even contact lynxmotion or hitec.

And really this is just like an ideological concept. How do you expect to get anybody to use and accept your design if you dont show it to them first? Most religious people believe in what they have no realistic proof of but are you expecting people to fork out money aswell?

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2009, 05:43:16 PM »
to add to what paulstreets said, why not raise some money and hire someone to do it? then you will at least have face to face communication and not have to explain things over the internet. if you are 500miles away from someone it can get kinda hard for them to grasp a concept of yours. im not trying to be mean just giving you my thoughts.
Howdy

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2009, 09:46:03 PM »
I believe I already answered that question, my wife is disabled and what I make just covers the bills, any questions? ???

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2009, 09:53:59 PM »
so you don't get anything else?
Howdy

Offline madchimp

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2009, 02:52:07 AM »
Still no takers on the offer yet? amazing
This may be part of your problem. Not trying to be mean or a jerk but you seem rather arrogant. You act as if you are some renowned designer offering plans to the ultimate mobile platform. From what you have shared thus far it's a box with a skidsteer arrangement. Not to mention most of the people here already have their own projects that they are designing which for a majority of the people here that is part of the enjoyment, building something they designed. Not to mention there is far more to be learned from doing the whole project yourself, and most of the people here seem rather eager to learn new things. Even when a project is a failure things are learned and personally I'm here to learn. Not to belittle your financial situation but I assure you that you are not alone. I'm sure there are quite a few people here struggling financially weather it just be their age, illness, or just plain lack of work.

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2009, 05:01:32 AM »
The title of this thread is Collaboration Request, or to put it in terms you might be able to understand, a request for opinions on a design.
Or to put it another away, teamwork, as defined here, A group of people with a common interest, working toward a common goal.
I can see, however, that there are no team players here, no one who wants to share ideas with others.
But there a great number of questions asking "What can I do to make this happen?" or "How do I do this? and those posts have been answered in some cases many times, by different people, with different ideas how to accomplish the task.

I just don't understand.

Offline Ro-Bot-X

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2009, 05:56:54 AM »
Here are my thoughts:

You have allready thought your project pretty well, we can't find improvements at first glance and we don't have much time to spare to look over/verify other people's projects thoroughly. We just get enough time for our projects if that.

You would need an egineer to look at the drawings, with enough experience in the field to see if any improvements need to be done at the mechanical part of the project and same for the electrical, electronics and so on. You can hire someone to do that but I doubt someone will just do it for free, as it takes time, calculations... I know you are offering the drawings to be used as a method of payment, but it's a slim possibility to find the person interested in the same project to be willing to do it. Most likely everyone has it's own design. How would that sound if you build the thing and when someone asks "you designed that?" you say "well, I built it from a design made by a fellow on the net" where's the pride on that? We make tutorials for other people to follow for free, but besides the $50 and $40 robot tutorials, how many people built a robot after a different tutorial? They will get ideas from the tutorials but they will find solutions on their own, combine ideas and come up with an original design, not just a copy cat.

So if you have problems overcomming a specific design problem, ask questions, but most likely you will find just guide lines and you will have to come up with a solution on your own. This is how we learn things, we get ideas and develop them further to adjust them for our needs.
Check out the uBotino robot controller!

Offline TSPCOTopic starter

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2009, 04:47:53 PM »
Thank you I am glad you took the time to explain this, instead of just making comments.
 ;)

Offline dellagd

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2009, 04:50:56 PM »
we will defiantly be here to answer your questions.
I am always happy to help
Innovation is a product of Failure, which leads to Success.

If I helped, +1 helpful pls

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Offline paulstreats

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Re: Collaboration request
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2009, 03:08:47 AM »
same here,

I think people just misunderstood what your request was about, it seemed to me that you were trying to sell or promote a new engineering concept that we wouldnt be able to see until we signed up with you.

Sorry ::)

 


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