Author Topic: Help with my first microbot!  (Read 3353 times)

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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Help with my first microbot!
« on: July 03, 2009, 04:22:01 AM »
Hi! I'm an amateur robotics enthusiast, and I've built only basic BEAM bots till date. Now i wanted to build this kind of a microbot http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-Small-Robots-Making-One-Cubic-Inch-Micro/
Here, the author is using a picaxe conntroller.Now, I cant find a picaxe microcontroller in my city, so can i get help regarding any other microcontroller I can use for this, which is of the same size but can be programmed in C( say AVR)?
Thanks and best regards to all!
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Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 04:27:46 AM »
yeap, you could check out the attiny13, attiny2313 or atmega8/168/328... (from smallest to largest)...
these will require a small h-bridge ic but it will not take up much space.
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2009, 04:52:29 AM »
Thank you so much smash!
and do i program these with the winAVR i've got at home?
also, do i etch a  board for such a circuit or do i do simple wiring?
thanks again!
cheers!
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Offline Miles

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009, 05:10:05 AM »
You program with AVRStudio.

With the circuit board do what you can; if you have access to producing PCB's then go with that, if not go with wiring. Basically go for the smallest and cleanest method which i think is PCB.

Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009, 05:13:05 AM »
thanks miles..btw, does AVR studio run with windows? or is it linux based like AVRdude and others?
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Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 05:15:11 AM »
nope, its for us windows users too ;D
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Offline Miles

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 05:17:12 AM »
I use it on windows XP and thats all i've ever used. I would recommend downloading the latest version 4.16 and i think it has an upgrade for that version as well.

Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 05:24:30 AM »
Thanks  folks..i know my doubts are basic but im reely new to this..so thanks for bearing with me! okay, so while i was typing all of this, i got one more query. Out of the chips that smash suggested, which one would be most recommended? Why?
So, my basic query is that what are the properties which make u choose a particular controller and reject the others? also, if im building a microbot, which property would  i search for in a chip? and so on... i hope u guys get my point..
thanks again!
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Offline Joker94

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 05:25:27 AM »
i would try use a pcb as it can reduce the size of the circuit board by half if you design it well enogh

good lick with the circuit board

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2009, 05:28:36 AM »
well, the first chip (tiny13) is the smallest but has the least amount of memory and I/O...
the atmega8/168/328 is the most popular avr chip as it has 20 I/O ports..
but i would think the tiny2313 would fit the best here because it has like 5 I/O and its fairly small...

generally you choose the board because of I/O numbers, speed, size and memory...
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Offline jamort

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 07:19:40 AM »
I saw this done before with the atmega 8 and then they communicated with ir it was a whole swamof these little things... but they had little micro servos taht were used off of a camera and they only required like one AA batterie and that was in the middle lining up with the bot going straight and then there were to small circuit on both side each with a motor out put that ran straight to the ic chip and the back had the infrared stuff and last but not least in the front they had the atmega... the cool thing about these is they only cost about 15$ or less to make and that they can fit under doors
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 07:33:28 AM »
can etching be done at home? if so, can anybody suggest me any resources or links where i can learn this process?
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Offline jamort

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2009, 07:40:36 AM »
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-etching.htm
read that....
I believe that you may not want to use metal for this is if that is why u asked its to light and really to small for me to do it...
and it your not intending to do it for this you should have started a new post :P
my english teacher once said, "dont talk about what you dont know in public...."

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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2009, 08:27:22 AM »
yaa..but how do i do ithe etching at home?
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2009, 08:59:43 AM »
Okay..now i have my Attiny 2313...and im planning to do the schematics now...do i make a standard programming board first or do i directly make the final bot circuit?
 also how do i program the chip. using parallel port(dunno i think it's called ISP right?) or serial?
 what frequency crystal do i use?
 also, if there is any standard schematic with anyone can u please give me the file or the link?
 
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Offline jamort

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2009, 11:06:55 AM »
 ??? y didnt u say you needed to know this much when you first posted you acted as if you had everything down pat.... and new this part... my best advice is to get the 50$ robot built because it will give you all the libraries you need for basic robotics programming
my english teacher once said, "dont talk about what you dont know in public...."

so I replied the truth, " Exactly why I dont ever talk about English."

Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2009, 11:19:39 AM »
Well, i did give a better introduction of myself in my other post in the list (the one about the Butler Bot)...well yes, my knowledge is very weak about microcontroller robots..yes, and im trying to learn..and yes, im trying to learn the 50$ bot ...
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Offline jamort

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2009, 01:23:06 PM »
theres nothing better than learning by doing.... when you say beam robotics that could be as simple as adding one batery to a couple of motors and strapping it to a base to were it has ability to move....
for more advice on this read my signature because the second part says  basically if you try something to hard like i once did youll end up just having to go back and do the things you skiped.... trust me i learned this the hard way.... you may be an engineer student but learning by yourself and being taught are two different things... ive read the same books over and over again to make sure i dont miss a single thing....
good luck
my english teacher once said, "dont talk about what you dont know in public...."

so I replied the truth, " Exactly why I dont ever talk about English."

Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2009, 03:09:21 PM »
jamort is right, do not attempt something over your head...
to make the schematic you will need to look up the datasheet for the part, google "attiny2313 datasheet".
find out which pins do what, for a microbot you wont really need any analogue ports, only digital.
if some ports can handle pwm, they should be used for the servos and the other ports for the sensor(s).

etching can be done at home, there are tonnes of tutorials out there, google it.
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2009, 10:38:38 PM »
yes..i guess jamort is right..I should attempt the 50$ bot first! well, i can't seem to find the atmega8 here in my city, can u suggest any other chips? Also, can i possibly make the microbot using tips from the 50$bot tutorial (cuz i could find someone who sells tiny2313) maybe compare the datasheets(of atmega8 and tiny2313) and connect the pins accordingly(with the addition of a motor driver of course)..maybe i can burn the same programs of a wireless bot or a photovore suggested in the 50$tutorial?
well, these are just my ideas..i'm sure you'll can suggest something better for me!
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Offline jamort

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2009, 10:52:50 PM »
Its going to be a pain finding motor drivers small enouhgh for a micro robot my best suggestion is micro servos.... the only differnece between the atmega 8 and attinys is that they have diffferent pins same code just different ports with in the code
my english teacher once said, "dont talk about what you dont know in public...."

so I replied the truth, " Exactly why I dont ever talk about English."

Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2009, 11:06:27 PM »
why not an L293D? well i've worked a lot of times with them some years ago, so i should get the connections fine..also these are the motors im using http://www.solarbotics.com/products/gm15/

but should i go ahead with the microbot then? i'll build it using the 50$ bot as my template and i'll program in the same way, making the same connections but on a smaller scale, and with the tiny2313, instaed of the mega8 ..what do you suggest? should i go ahead with this?
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Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2009, 01:12:36 AM »
the l293d will work fine but i would recommend the micro servos as well because they are plug in and play with microcontrollers...
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2009, 01:30:12 AM »
any good places where i can buy microservos from? and will i have to hack into them too???
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2009, 01:33:01 AM »
hey james..can u suggest any good model of microservos you know of???
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Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2009, 01:34:51 AM »
not really, just look for some with the things you require, ie. speed, torque, weight (most are 9g), size etc...
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Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2009, 01:45:22 AM »
acutally torque wont be a problem here..i assume i'll have to go for the smallest size...is it ok if i post my schematic here later???
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Offline SmAsH

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2009, 01:45:56 AM »
yea, that sounds fine.
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Offline galannthegreat

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2009, 12:10:13 PM »
If you're still looking for a controller that is small, check this one out: http://bittybot.com/index.php?pageId=MEGAbitty
Kurt

Offline yash25Topic starter

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Re: Help with my first microbot!
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2009, 12:23:53 PM »
thanks galannthegreat! i guess im using the tiny 2313...already bought one today morning!i hope it's ok if i put up my schematics and CAD design for approval for you'll to approve for me!
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