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Author Topic: Will This Work?  (Read 7448 times)

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Offline sotuTopic starter

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Will This Work?
« on: April 11, 2007, 10:41:50 AM »
This is an eletric circuit card, im just wondering if this can be used for a robot if i put in wires for, u know the battery, controll and all of that?:

This is two pictures, one of each side!

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Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 11:23:22 AM »
Yes, but you would have to get rid of the contacts between each of the leads, or else they would still be connecting upon contact.  It would be more worth it to get some pefforated (sp?) board.  It's just a giant grid that you can use for putting parts.  It's very cheap.  $1-2 at your nearest store and even cheaper online.  It may be worth the cost and the risks involved with modding this.

Offline Hal9000

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2007, 11:50:54 AM »
Ok, this is a velleman board. I know these small circuits quite well.

Is it a metronome or something?

Stripboard is the way to go for making circuits.............not a pre-manufactured metronome board.
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Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 01:52:11 PM »
Yes, but you would have to get rid of the contacts between each of the leads, or else they would still be connecting upon contact.  It would be more worth it to get some pefforated (sp?) board.  It's just a giant grid that you can use for putting parts.  It's very cheap.  $1-2 at your nearest store and even cheaper online.  It may be worth the cost and the risks involved with modding this.
I have made a red arrow pointing at a random circuit, do u mean i will have to get rid of all of theese circuits? (And how would i do that)

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Offline dunk

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 05:02:41 PM »
so that is a printed circuit board for a particular circuit.
if you were trying to build that circuit then yes, it would be perfect.
if you are trying to use it as a board to build a robot controller then no. trying to use this board would be silly.
it is not the best tool for the job.

for prototyping circuits there are a few different approaches.
1. solder the wires onto the pins of your components and don't worry about a board.
2. use a prototyping board such as veroboard.
http://images.google.com/images?q=veroboard&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-36,GGGL:en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
3. use a solderless breadboard.
http://www.iguanalabs.com/breadboard.htm

i really think you would get a lot of value out of doing some reading on basic electronics before progressing with your robot.
it will save you a lot of time in the long run.
can anyone recommend any tutorials on how to connect switches to motors, etc for sotu?
i get the impression he needs help with actually how to connect the bits together.
any tutorials i found online jump in a bit above that level.
maybe there's a book or starter kit out there that could help.

dunk.

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 12:01:25 AM »

2. use a prototyping board such as veroboard.
Byt if i got a veroboard i dont know how to wire it up! ???

And what about what Nanobit said? Just get rid of the circuits between each of the leads and it would work?
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Offline dunk

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 02:44:08 AM »
i think he meant you to cut the wire traces on the board and solder on normal wire with the components sort of making it into a prototyping board like in the first few pictures on this link: http://www.bcae1.com/circuitboardetch.htm

note that nanob0t is suggesting that you get some propper prototyping board as this will be far easier than trying to use a circuit board that was designed for something else.

as for not knowing how to wire up veroboard, that's why i was suggesting you research basic electronics before you continue with your bot.

perf-board is a similar product to veroboard. try searching for pictures of either.
basically the theory is the same with them both: on one side you have lots of holes. on the other side you have lots of copper strips you can solder your components to.
it is up to the person soldering to map things out in such a way that the components are joined together on the copper in the same order as their circuit diagram.

dunk.

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 06:55:38 AM »
So it does mather where i wire up the wires on one of this veroboards. They look the same all over the card so i thought maybe it diden't care where to plug in the wires for battery and all of that so i could plug them in wherever i would like. But it isen't like that?
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Offline dunk

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 07:34:24 AM »
well as long as you have made the correct circuit on the board it doesn't matter. one piece of copper is much the same as any other.

am i missing your point?

obviously the pattern you create on the card must match your circuit diagram.



happy 100 posts by the way.
i think that is probably the quickest 100 posts ever clocked up.

dunk.

Offline Hal9000

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 07:56:32 AM »
So it does mather where i wire up the wires on one of this veroboards. They look the same all over the card so i thought maybe it diden't care where to plug in the wires for battery and all of that so i could plug them in wherever i would like. But it isen't like that?

Ok, ok

You actually have to cut the tracks in the veroboard.

What I normally do for a rough prototype is to make a reasonably large board

I put in the DIL sockets first

I then use the top row for the highest voltage

The bottom row for ground

You then basically designate little tracks for the rest of the components.

e.g part 1) for the 5v rail on the microcontroler, if it stretches that far, join it straight to 5v

e.g part 2) If it isn't directly connected to a rail, you will have to have 4 or 5 holes of track, whatever, cut off so that you can join 4 or 5 components to the same terminal.

Again, this would make far more sense if you made a simple led with a switch circuit on a tiny bit of veroboard, before making anything larger than this.

I know you want to ask a lot of questions before beginning on something, but sometimes biting the bullet and actually doing it (and making mistakes) is far more valuable.

Again , good luck.
"The truth is, you can't hide from the truth, cos the truth is all there is" - Handsome Boy Modeling School

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 08:51:40 AM »
Can both of u post some "Paint" picture or something that shows how/what u mean. I was a little confused by the last post of u Hal9000.
Anyway post some pics so i can understand it better..! That would be great!;) thnx
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Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 09:23:27 AM »
I am unfamiliar with how to post images.  I do believe you need the pictures to be on a webpage, and I cannot do that at my school.

Anyways, with that electric board you have, you would have to get rid of all of those light green lines, or at least break them up.  You then risk not fully getting rid of them and short circuiting components.  It's not worth it, trust me.  The only thing useful for that board is constructing the intended circuit.

I have a link now, this is what perf board looks like

I hope that works.

Anyway, you put the leads of the electonics through the holes and solder them in place.  The copper is conductive to solder to make clean circuits.

To better summarize what Hal9000 said:

Think of the perf board as a grid.  Letters are your rows and numbers are your columns.  You put your DIL sockets first and things needed to hold your IC chips.  These are larger and fit a deffinitive place in the grid so you place these first. 

You assign certain rows of the board to power and such, so everything you need to run power to, you run to that row.  This way the circuitry is organized.  This is your main goal when putting together a circuit board.  If it's trashy you risk short circuiting, and the inability to find the problems.

There are pins on the DIL sockets.  An easy way to organize it would be to designate the row extending from the pin as electronics for that pin. 


I hope this makes sense.  If you really really really wanted to clean up that board, I would recommend sandpaper and some time.

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 10:41:42 AM »
U said if i wanted to use the card u showed pictures of i would have to remove the contacts between the leads, But just now i found a wireless controlled car and here's a photo of the eletric circuit card. And as u can see there is contacts between the leads:
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Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 10:44:36 AM »
Im sorry for the bad photo, it was taken by my web cam. Here i have pointed out one of the many contacts:
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Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2007, 11:13:33 AM »
If you plan on using the circuit board for its intended use, then yes...  Put in the electronics and have fun.  Those light green strips already connect the components and you do not need to use wires.  Just put in the component, put some solder down, clip the leads.  They're about as simple as you can get.

If you want to use the circuit board for something else, purchase some perf board or something. 

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2007, 01:19:36 PM »
So what ure saying is i can use the other card i took a photo of (Then one without anything wired on it)? Couse it look like the same card only its bigger, so if the small card in the small wireless controlled card is working why shoulden't the other card work? :-\
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Offline Hal9000

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2007, 01:59:25 PM »
So what ure saying is i can use the other card i took a photo of (Then one without anything wired on it)? Couse it look like the same card only its bigger, so if the small card in the small wireless controlled card is working why shoulden't the other card work? :-\

Wires connect things in a circuit with wires on.

A circuit board does not use wires. Instead the connections are made by the lines on the board. These are made out of metal. Metal conducts.

If you use a circuit board for something which it was not intended for, then this means you have to be quite lucky to get the connections you desire without mofiying the board. This, therefore is not the choice for many robotics enthusiasts.

Pretty much everyone makes prototypes on veroboard.........which is another name for stripboard.

Do this.
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Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2007, 07:19:49 AM »
Ok thnx, it sound way more easy to use one of this veroboards!
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Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2007, 11:13:05 AM »
Alright, I'm short on money and I am interested in a lot of this stuff.  The radioshacks around here charge you $5 for a larger board without the copper contacts on them.  I am trying to find somewhere that may sell this a good deal cheaper than the electronics stores around here.  I searched google quite a bit and ThomasNet without much success.  I get a bunch of results of just metal sheeting with tiny holes in them... or links to ebay, which I cannot access from school  >:(

Anyone have a link to an online manufacturer?

Maybe a method to produce your own?

Offline ed1380

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2007, 02:19:13 PM »
How big are you looking at.
a 2"x3" board with copper lined holes is $1.79 here.
Problems making the $50 robot circuit board?
click here. http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198

Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2007, 04:43:03 PM »
Yeah, that's ridiculous.  I don't want to pay $1.79!   ;D I love building different circuits and that's the main part of them.  The rest of the parts I get for free.  I'm looking for an online site peticularly if anyone has any that sells it.  I hate Radioshack that sells one $.25 component for $1.50... It's stupid.  Only time it's worth it is when they're selling out and all components are %80 off  :D   Then I buy out the store.  I can't get over to Point Source quick enough either.  They bought out like 3 radioshacks and have shelves of parts for free.

Just wondering if there's a site before I ebay them.

Offline ed1380

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2007, 08:08:29 PM »
what about digikey. it pretty much has everything
Problems making the $50 robot circuit board?
click here. http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?topic=3292.msg25198#msg25198

Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2007, 08:27:07 PM »
Is veroboard an abbreviation for something?  I never used anything other than veroboard... Perhaps there's another name that I haven't gotten.  The odds of Thomas Register not having boards is slim  :P

If not, I think I enjoy Ebay now!!!!

Buy it nows of ~$10 for varieties of 1440 different resistors, 600 electrolythic capacitors, huge sheets of veroboard, numerous diodes, etc.

DONT TAKE MY IDEA!  I want the bids  ;D

Just have to convince my mom to use her credit card  ::)


I'd rather try to find 'samples' first though.  Free is always better.

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2007, 01:01:19 AM »


Just have to convince my mom to use her credit card  ::)



How old are u? im just wondering if im around ure age!
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Offline dunk

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2007, 04:22:05 AM »
hey nanob0t,
have you looked into solderless breadboard?
it would be quite a large initial investment for you but once you have one you could experiment with building circuits without soldering anything.
i always use this method for the initial prototype circuit and only circuits that are actually going to be used for something permenant ever get soldered onto a board.

dunk.

Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2007, 10:28:31 AM »

How old are u? im just wondering if im around ure age!
[/quote]

I'm 16.

hey nanob0t,
have you looked into solderless breadboard?
it would be quite a large initial investment for you but once you have one you could experiment with building circuits without soldering anything.
i always use this method for the initial prototype circuit and only circuits that are actually going to be used for something permenant ever get soldered onto a board.

dunk.


Yes,  I... well my dad owns one that you can run power to and hook stuff to it.  I use it to create circuits and stuff before I actually solder the stuff down.  I just want some board that I can actually put the stuff down.  I think I have my cure though... Ebay.   :D

Offline trigger

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2007, 11:50:52 AM »
hey nanob0t,
have you looked into solderless breadboard?
it would be quite a large initial investment for you but once you have one you could experiment with building circuits without soldering anything.
i always use this method for the initial prototype circuit and only circuits that are actually going to be used for something permenant ever get soldered onto a board.

dunk.

cheapest breadboards are at pololu.com
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Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2007, 12:16:03 PM »
Dam, today i just blew  my best chance of an wireless robot. I had a really small circuit card. 4 wires giving power: 2 for turning 2 for driving. I changed the small battery to a large battery and all wires from small motors to big motors. S i thought that as long as i changed the motors to bigger i could change the battery to a more powerfull. But the circuit card was to small, all the power needing to get through the card, got so small lines to go through that the whole card allmost exploded. It got really HOT  And the card started to smoke alot. It also came some pretty wird noices!
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Offline nanob0t

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2007, 05:20:53 PM »
Yeah, that's not the greatest idea.  You should overthink something before you do something like hook up more power.  Wait until you pay for something really expensive and that happens.

[/quote]
cheapest breadboards are at pololu.com
[/quote]

Thanks, nice site.

Offline sotuTopic starter

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Re: Will This Work?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2007, 06:54:56 AM »
ok
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 08:02:56 AM by sotu »
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