Author Topic: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?  (Read 1878 times)

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Offline blackbeardTopic starter

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why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« on: October 15, 2009, 03:17:46 PM »
so i'm making an Hbridge for one of my robots and i discovered this

http://www.solarbotics.net/library/circuits/driver_4varHbridge.html

since i have all most of the parts (lots of 2n2219 transistors, 7414 ic, resistors) i figured it might be worth while. then i noticed that it uses 2 different kinds of transistors. is this important or can i use the 2n2219 transistors in place of the 2n2905 transistors as well?
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Offline galannthegreat

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 03:27:44 PM »
They are either NPN or PNP transistors. The one with the arrow pointing away from the device is NPN, and the one where the arrow points towards the device is PNP. Just follow what is layed out on that diagram, or check out an H-Bridge IC, such as the L293D or the SN754410 (they are actually quad half H-bridges... aka dual H-bridges) that are good for controlling 2 motors.

You can use two complementary transistors aswell.
Kurt

Offline blackbeardTopic starter

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 04:02:57 PM »
doh >.<

ya that makes sense. thanks for the info
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Offline Soeren

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 04:11:02 PM »
Hi,

since i have all most of the parts (lots of 2n2219 transistors, 7414 ic, resistors) i figured it might be worth while. then i noticed that it uses 2 different kinds of transistors. is this important or can i use the 2n2219 transistors in place of the 2n2905 transistors as well?
If it weren't important, why would they make it with different transistors?
Designers tend to use as little variety in their component choice within a given project as possible.

If you build it with only 2N2219, Q1(Q2) and/or Q4(Q3) will die screaming the instant input A(B) is going low, as they will both be open and try to shunt the battery.
The only thing excusing the (very poor) original design is the low operating voltage, since both transistors will be open when the output of the inverter gate transitions through the interval from ~0.7V to ~Vcc-0.7V, but it's meant for a BEAM, where voltages are low and, all too often, minimalism takes priority over quality in design.

With an extra inverter, mounted between the base+resistor (i.e. on the far side of the resistors seen from the bases) of Q1 and Q4 (similar for the other side), they should work, although not at max. efficiency, since there will be a short overlap in the switching where both transistors conduct.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
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Offline blackbeardTopic starter

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 09:19:44 PM »
ya i'm not even going to bother with this. the 2n2219 transistors burn out with the power from my USB port! junk they are!
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Offline kd5kfl

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2009, 07:37:35 AM »
Quote
it uses 2 different kinds of transistors. is this important


half way down:

http://www.dprg.org/tutorials/1998-04a/

NPN --- Not Pointing In
PNP --- Pointing in
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 07:38:49 AM by kd5kfl »

Offline blackbeardTopic starter

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2009, 07:03:14 AM »
ya guys i got the whole npn pnp thing :P i just didn't look hard enough
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Offline Physics Fu

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 08:20:25 PM »
They are either NPN or PNP transistors. The one with the arrow pointing away from the device is NPN, and the one where the arrow points towards the device is PNP. Just follow what is layed out on that diagram, or check out an H-Bridge IC, such as the L293D or the SN754410 (they are actually quad half H-bridges... aka dual H-bridges) that are good for controlling 2 motors.

You can use two complementary transistors aswell.

Sorry about posting in a horrendously dead thread, but how would the circuit change if I used an IC, such as the L293D? The transistors in the tutorial are obsolete, and the IC seems like a simpler solution. I'm a mech person though, and still new to this electron magic electronics.

Offline Soeren

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 08:14:02 PM »
Hi,

Sorry about posting in a horrendously dead thread, but how would the circuit change if I used an IC, such as the L293D?
It would change completely, as the L293D would replace all the transistors and resistors.


The transistors in the tutorial are obsolete,
No they're still very current - used where you need a bit more current than eg. BC54x/BC55x can handle.


and the IC seems like a simpler solution. I'm a mech person though, and still new to this electron magic electronics.
Just download the datasheet for the L293D, where you'll find an application circuit, but the discrete build will teach you more and be easier to understand, so ask yourself whether getting a finished result or learning how stuff works is your main priority.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline Physics Fu

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 08:44:34 PM »

No they're still very current - used where you need a bit more current than eg. BC54x/BC55x can handle.


Ah, the internet lied to me then, it's not the first time. Since both are relatively cheap I'll probably do both methods, just for the experience. Thanks for your help!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 08:45:55 PM by Physics Fu »

Offline crazyengineer

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Re: why does this Hbridge use 2 different types of transistors?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 01:23:56 PM »
2n2219 is a bad idea for a Hbridge. You're better off using power mosfets. They can handle higher voltages, and have a inductive spike diode already included.

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10213 (N Channel)
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10349 (P Channel)

 


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