Society of Robots - Robot Forum
Electronics => Electronics => Topic started by: M.I.T. on February 09, 2011, 01:14:16 AM
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Hey just want to take a vote on which you guys think is better the great Arduino (any Arduino with a shield or not) or the great Axon (1 or 2). You can vote by replying to this post just saying which you thinks is better. I will tally the votes and give my anwser on 2-25-11 9:00 p.m. that is also when the vote will end. Also if you vote you will become part of a drawing to win a Arduino Uno and an Axon 1&2! I will use Random.org to pick a winner. There is also a link where you can buy the Ardunio or the Axon if you don't win. Happy programing!!!! 8)
Ardunio
http://www.makershed.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=13&search=arduino&show=100&page=1 (http://www.makershed.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=13&search=arduino&show=100&page=1)
Axon
http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon_select.shtml (http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon_select.shtml)
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This question has been asked, discussed, argued over and seen many times before on this forum. You might as well search for the old threads instead of making another one.
Here, I'll help:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Axon+Arduino+site%3Awww.societyofrobots.com%2Frobotforum%2F&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=Axon+Arduino+site%3Awww.societyofrobots.com%2Frobotforum%2F&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=)
But next time try searching yourself first.
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Do I get to vote? ::)
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Yes Admin you get to vote. But I know your vote is for Axon, I am having a hard time deciding what to vote for, I have already built so many things with both devices there both so awesome! :)
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Need some votes!
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Do I get to vote? ::)
You're gonna vote for Arduino ain't you...
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Need some votes don't you guys want to win a Arduino and an Axon 1&2? ???
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Axon II! I've personally never used an arduino before but I own an Axon II now and love it
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I have never personally used the axon so i cannot pass judgment on the axon or axon 2.
I have used Arduino clone (the 'Twenty Ten') and have found it a good platform but when it comes to robotics it is not the most use of friendly platform(the arduino as a brand).
I have researched the Axon and axon 2 micro controller in depth and have been contemplating/designing projects around it for a while now (my current funds wont allow it). and have also been using webbot lib, and when put together the Axon 2 is defiantly the stand out and definatly gets my vote when it comes to robotics and robotic development!
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If you are that persistent...
I know an Axon... Haven't worked with it, but I have worked with the same IC it carries,
and I'm satisfied...
Got many timers, got many pins, 2 ADC 8 port channels, a big Flash.... what else someone would want...
Arduino.... well... I have worked with the AtmegaXX8 series too... But with arduino software...
No way and I surely won't...
AVR Studio FTW! even with it's flaws it's a nice tool... And having worked before with eclipse...
The AVR eclipse plug in should get me going for more....
Cheers....
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Axon II. no justification, just want to win stuff ;)
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Also if you vote you will become part of a drawing to win a Arduino Uno and an Axon 1&2! I will use Random.org to pick a winner. There is also a link where you can buy the Ardunio or the Axon if you don't win. Happy programing!!!! 8)
Ardunio
http://www.makershed.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=13&search=arduino&show=100&page=1 (http://www.makershed.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=13&search=arduino&show=100&page=1)
Axon
http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon_select.shtml (http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon_select.shtml)
Need some votes don't you guys want to win a Arduino and an Axon 1&2? ???
So why exactly are you willing to spend $300 for voting? Do you have proof that you even own all three microcontrollers to give away?
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i think will go with axon 2 because you can make anything with it with almost unlimited possibilities (in the limits of reason always)
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So why exactly are you willing to spend $300 for voting? Do you have proof that you even own all three microcontrollers to give away?
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Well if you do I will be voting for axon.
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I'll vote Arduino bootloader/library, since I like to be able to do somewhat-object-oriented-programming (C++ style). The actual Arduino hardware isn't that great for its price. The Axon (one or two) definitely wins on functionality.
For the IDE equalizer, just use Eclipse and the AVR plugin - then its just a matter of including the library file.
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I wonder why there's always an either/or comparison. When someone brings up something like "which programming language is the best" or something like this, it's silly to compare them.
The axon is great for IO, but costs a lot more and doesn't have the massive user community that arduino has. Arduino is more limited but it's a lot cheaper and has a larger community with a lot of solve problems in the code.
In terms of their popularity, let's put it this way: the arduino has its own wikipedia page, the axon doesn't. In terms of their capabilities, well, the axon can drive 29 servos (or something like this...) and none of the current arduinos come even close.
it's so application specific, and it depends so much on the user's interest and level of ability, that the question itself is meaningless :-)
Think of it like this: "Is C better than Java?" Well...if I'm programming an axon, then yes, since the axon doesn't work in java. But if I want to write object oriented code, C can't cut it (and I'd probably use C#, and you'll probably use something entire different and claim that my choice is absurd!)
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I'll vote Arduino bootloader/library, since I like to be able to do somewhat-object-oriented-programming (C++ style).
You can program the Axon using C++, as it's supported in gcc (the compiler the Axon uses). :P
Webbot tried to remake the back-end WebbotLib libraries with C++, but he had to stop when he realized C was better for the job (it had to do with issues involving gcc not being as well developed for C++ as it was for C).
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You can program the Axon using C++ [...]
I realize that you can program in C++, but since the backend libraries are all written in a functional-programming style, I've never gotten into WebbotLib. Note that I said that I liked the Arduino bootloader/libraries, not the board - I currently use a custom-designed board (An Arduino based board with an ATMega1280 and 3-pin headers/power buses) to attempt to make the best of both worlds.
It is, really, just a personal preference thing. The long hiatus in the AxonII supply was also a factor, since I needed the board before the delays. Now, I don't have the money to spare, so maybe in the future.
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I would probably vote for the Arduino for three reasons
1) As someone new to electronics making my own Arduino would be allot easier ten making an axon
2) The Arduino is allot cheaper for a 13 year to buy than a axon
3) I live in Australia so it is much easier to get an Arduino here than ship a Axon here.
but i do think the axon is better in performace ;D
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my vote which i will pm is for the AXON 2 though if you were to go with the arduino i'd recommend that you go with the mega. here is how i would compare the arduino and axon 2.
here's how i would compare them:
Arduino pros
-cheep at around $30
-good for beginners
-can be made home brew
-can be used in permanent projects at the cost of +/- $5 (atmega328 only)
-VERY big userbase
AXON 1&2 pros
-Tons of I/O
-Filled with features geared for robotics
-more rapid development then arduino mega (axon 1&2 both come out during the mega's life)
-extremely versatile
-reasonable price for it's feature list
-big community with many tutorials
-admin is awesome!
Arduino cons
-low i/o (except the mega)
-very few built in features
-bootloader makes the arduino inefficient by most standards
-newer arduinos are of cheep/lousy construction
-though open source the arduino board is still overpriced by many standards
-requires overpriced "shields" which inflate the low cost of the arduino astronomically
-odd pin configuration for said shields
-community is often rude and arrogant
axon cons
-closed source (may not be a con to many considering how the arduino's open source nature doesn't help it much)
-slightly expensive
-must use whole board in your projects (not permanent)
All in all i think the axon is a MUCH BETTER system then the arduino but it's also more expensive. the axon is THE micro for robotics and even the mega can't compare to it
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I agree with those who say, which is better depends on what you are doing... Also may depend on which Arduino?
I have only used Arduino Megas, which like the Axons have lots of IO lines. You can get these pretty cheap. The clone one that I have mainly used is the Seeeduino Mega which you can get for $42.50, which gives you something like 70 digital pins and 16 Analog pins. So if your project is simply wanting to jumper stuff and you want compatibility with a large community of people, or you would like the capability and idea of shields than the Arduino is the way to go.
However which do I like better? The Axon2 by far. Why?
a) Power: I like that you have servo type power as well as logic type power plus better voltage regulators. Could be better. Personally I would prefer screw type connectors and separate ones for voltage/logic, with a standard jumper (not solder bridge)...
a) 3 pin servo connectors. I hate on the Arduino I am either having to pull sensor wires apart, or use large male/male adapter pins to plug in and then always having problems finding power/ground pins.
b) I like having some form of display for data, could be a few LEDs, but the one character works well.
c) I have not found I like to work with shields. Why? you might get one to work, like an XBee one, but then you want to plug in a second, like a servo shield and find that it used the same IO pins, or they don't bring all of the IO pins through or...
So for normal like projects, where I was not on a shoestring budget, I would always vote for the Axon.
Kurt
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Software.
I am not a programmer guy, so I love easy programing environments. Arduino is my favorite, although I find Webbotlib getting close. There are things that don't seem intuitive in Webbotlib, compared to Arduino software, but perhaps once Webbot will transition towards C++ things will improve. I mean to me is clear what "setup()" and "loop()" do, but "TICK_COUNT appControl(LOOP_COUNT loopCount, TICK_COUNT loopStart)" seems way too complicated. I repeat, I have no programming background, I have learned to do it "by ear" not by taking proper courses. But I have replicated part of my Arduino programs in Webbotlib and they work. I had a hard time doing it, even with the ease of the Designers.
That being said, let's go to the hardware.
Arduino boards are hard to use for robotics. Period. To improve things, I designed the Robot Builder's Shield (http://seriousrobotics.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/the-robot-builders-shield/). I might design one for the Mega, but for now, if I need a more powerful micro, I'll use my Axon.
But there are many Arduino compatible boards out there, like the Roboduino (http://store.curiousinventor.com/all-kits/roboduino-kit-servo-ready-freeduino-arduino-compatible.html), that are easier to use.
I also designed 2 boards especially for robotics use, the uBotino (http://seriousrobotics.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/ubotino-a-2-square-arduino-board-for-robotics/) and the new uServotino (http://seriousrobotics.wordpress.com/2011/02/05/uservotino-robot-controller/). Price wise, they cost about the same as an Arduino, but I sell them as kit so you have to assemble it. And I don't make much off of them, because I deal with small quantities. Again, there is a reason why the Axon is more expensive. I should have done a similar thing, but I thought there are people out there that want to get into robotics and can't afford an expensive board, so this would look as a better alternative. Shipping is also cheaper for a kit than for a assembled board (they don't fit tho the light packet thickness constrains), so even people from Australia can afford an easier robotics board for the same price they would buy it locally at the expense of soldering the parts and waiting about 2 weeks for it to arrive.
I have not used my Axon in a larger project as I intended to, mainly because of my laziness, secondly because I still didn't have the "courage" to buy 20 (good) servos to make the humanoid I want to do. Hardware wise, I find it easy to use, software wise, not a walk in the park. Just the opposite of the Arduino. And since I am a hardware guy, to me fiddling with the software is like using servos and sensors with the Arduino Uno.
So, for the hardware easiness, the Axon get's my vote. For the software easiness, the Arduino IDE get's my vote.
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axon cons
-closed source (may not be a con to many considering how the arduino's open source nature doesn't help it much)
Both WebbotLib and my custom code are all open source . . . For example, I just released source code for voice control with the Axon and Axon II:
http://www.societyofrobots.com/sensors_voice_recognition_robot.shtml (http://www.societyofrobots.com/sensors_voice_recognition_robot.shtml)
Hardware wise, I find it easy to use, software wise, not a walk in the park. Just the opposite of the Arduino. And since I am a hardware guy, to me fiddling with the software is like using servos and sensors with the Arduino Uno.
So, for the hardware easiness, the Axon get's my vote. For the software easiness, the Arduino IDE get's my vote.
You find WebbotLib Project Designer hard to use? ???
ps - MIT begged me to add a poll, so I did.
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In reality the Axon is better, but for a beginner the Arduino is better. If that makes sense :P
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You find WebbotLib Project Designer hard to use?
Actually, without the Designers I would have never done it. There are things that I don't understand and I'm too lazy to get to the bottom of it. I prefer the simpler route. I simply choose to spend my time on other stuff than on learning "proper" (should I say low level?) C programming. I know I don't have all the aces in my sleeve, but this is me, I'm comfortable with what I have.
Webbot has done a wonderful job at simplifying things and he is continuing the giant work that is required to get effective code, small footprint and ease of usage. I bow before him. I am sure it will come a day when we'll say "Arduino is obsolete" when it comes to robotics and Webbotlib is the new thing. I thank him for his effort!
I saw your Speech Recognition code for the Axon, I have learned a few things from it, as I've just used the bit bang serial code for the Arduino the author made. Being lazy, I didn't try to change what was working, just adapted the commands for my robot. But I see you've gone beyond that and did a great job! I liked the fact that you skipped the trigger word and gone directly to the more important commands. I never had the power and serial issues you had with your module, so I could not help you there. Glad you got to the bottom of it. You're the second person I bow before. I thank you for this site and continuous effort!
Cheers!
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is the poll for performance and power or your overall liking of the product?
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Axon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
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Axon ll
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AxonII as well, I don't think the Arduino would cut it for my application and I can absorb the cost difference.
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Thanks for voting all of you, vote end 02/25/2011 9:00 o'clock sharp, one of the voters will win a Arduino UNO and an Axon 1&2. :)
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I am new to robotics but from what i have seen as far as specs Axon 2 is what i will vote for. I have been working on a simple robot platform in which to utilize this board when i am ready to purchase it.
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Ive not used Axon, but Id like to try it. Perhaps if I win I can try an Axon.
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I have yet to use an arduino for a project but I have a friend who got one on free day. I have been teaching him more in-depth programming with it. I'm not much of a programmer myself but the arduino is easy to learn. However the axon is easy to use and POWERFUL. Axon all the way. I even tried to talk my friend into ordering an axon instead of an arduino. He quickly realized his mistake. He likes his arduino but sees the limitations.
Starting programmer or small artsy project Arduino all the way
Robotics and taking over the world- Axon FTW
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That's cool that all of you guys have voted. :) Arduino is awesome and the Axon is awesome but here's the thing. Ardunio for easy programming but you have to have a lot of shields for hardware it so easy to program but Axon is a little harder to program but for hardware just plug it in and no shields. Lets put it this way Axon is a little more in cost and harder to program but in the long run if your a hardware guy get the Axon and if you are good at programing get the Axon. If your the beginner get the Arduino. If your building the 50 dollar robot get the Axon. Well happy programming. 8)
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If your building the 50 dollar robot get the Axon.
Axon would be my choice for a complex robotics project, but i wouldn't select a $100 microcontroller board for a $50 robot. :P
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Axon would be my choice for a complex robotics project, but i wouldn't select a $100 microcontroller board for a $50 robot. :P
Unless of course you're gonna scrap your old robot to build a newer better one ::)
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...Unless you are 'mathematically challenged' :P
You have a good point Admin, however there are several 'build a first robot' guides on the net using a variety of microcontroller modules. Your $50 'bot stood out with it's 'start from scratch' philosophy requiring more involvement and challenge, and offering much greater reward in terms of knowledge gained. I would argue it is still worth building the $50 controller for a first robot as it's educational value is far greater than the cost of it's components. By buying a pre-built controller board you are actually missing out!
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...Unless you are 'mathematically challenged' :P
You have a good point Admin, however there are several 'build a first robot' guides on the net using a variety of microcontroller modules. Your $50 'bot stood out with it's 'start from scratch' philosophy requiring more involvement and challenge, and offering much greater reward in terms of knowledge gained. I would argue it is still worth building the $50 controller for a first robot as it's educational value is far greater than the cost of it's components. By buying a pre-built controller board you are actually missing out!
++++1! And it's actually good to see that there are others believing in that ;-)
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Axon win the vote! And the winner of the Arduino UNO Axon 1&2 is user aleeya the robot!!! Thanks for voting. 8)
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Hi everyone.
This may or may not be a big deal to anyone else here, but M.I.T. and aleeya the robot is the same person.
I determined this over a week ago, but wanted to see what M.I.T. would do before I call him out on it. I approached him on it, twice in private, but he stuck to his fake story. I already previously had issues with M.I.T. posting spam on the forum last year, but gave him a second chance.
So I've permanently blocked him from the SoR community.
Why? Because I want SoR to be a place of trust, without scams by members.
thank you for your time ;D
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I suspected something like this when i read about what prizes where................
this guy should be listed as a bad guy in the SOR video game just for the records:D
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I suspected something like this when i read about what prizes where................
As did I, which made me 'bet' Admin he had another account. I won the bet.
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As did I, which made me 'bet' Admin he had another account. I won the bet.
I didn't check at first, thinking that if MIT was running a scam, he would have at least tried to cover his tracks. It was so blindingly obvious . . .
Oh, and no one post your theories here as I don't want him to sign on another account and then know how to cover his tracks :P
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What?! You mean some random person DIDN'T just give $300 worth of prizes for some pole with obvious results? *gasp*
Btw I wonder how that ai entity that azy invented (in more ways then one :p) turned out
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Axon 2
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Axon 2
ya sorry voting is over, better luck next time
...oh and it's a scam
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Ah yes, well if it sounds too good to be true...
The interesting result of this whole affair is the very very clear bias towards the Axon family, on the SoR forum. Quite surprising actually! :P
I wonder if the results would hold true on an Arduino forum...
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I wonder if the results would hold true on an Arduino forum...
True, the results are scewed.
How many people on an Arduino forum are aware of there being other microcontrollers besides the Arduino? :P
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And how many people that build robots are on the Arduino forum? 5-10%? Speaking of percentage, I would like to see a graph with the type of microcontroller (used in robotics) and percentage... Like how many people use BasicStamp, Propeller, Picaxe, Axon, Arduino Mega, Arduino, etc. Also ARM based boards and SBC.
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And PICs.
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Probably the best place to find out that type of information is at those stores/forums like Trossen Robotics who sell Axon's and Arduino's and ... And find out how much of each of them they sell...
Kurt
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No one reveals actual numbers, for 'industry secret' reasons . . .
(except for Arduino)
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Probably the best place to find out that type of information is at those stores/forums like Trossen Robotics who sell Axon's and Arduino's and ... And find out how much of each of them they sell...
Kurt
I bet Trossen sells more Arbotix controllers than Arduino or Axons. These controllers are for Dynamixel servos and most of Trossen guys build robots with Dynamixel servos for Mech Warfare. I would do it too if I had the cash to get the servos.
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ಠ‿ಠ
This guy should be listed as a bad guy in the SOR video game just for the records :D
roflol
:evil grin: