Society of Robots - Robot Forum
Electronics => Electronics => Topic started by: catalinene33 on January 08, 2010, 03:04:53 AM
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Hi
Today I will post both Eagle's files and electronic parts list you need to create your own homemade axon clone.
total cost is estimated ~ 30euro for EU or $ 40 for U.S.
estimated time working for the finished product is ~ 4 hours of work.
Update: The beauty of this PCB is that you can use any of these MCU Atmega640/1280/2560.
I wish you a good day.
P.S. Admin please do not delete this topic.thx
Sorry for the delay.
Attachment Pin List.xls = a list to compare axon I, II and Axon clone I/O.
And Eagle files for creating the board. I will soon attach the part list along with their price in a .doc file and with a small tutorial .
Reply#31.
Hi,
First, I want to thank those who support this topic and I understand that this idea is not to depose any of the admin's projects or original Axon (not the other but I am very grateful to Admin in terms of work and time spent in creating this community and to open the minds of many people). Wink
To be concise and simple in expression I will list some of the reasons I made this clone (which is a clone of the combined Axon I and Axon II):
1) my salary/month is somewhere in ~ 200EU - axon is somewhere in ~ 100EU with all the transportation.
2) I made several projects with ATMEGA 8, 168, 32, and wanted to jump to another level.
3) I wanted to offer students and people who can not afford an Axon, the opportunity to create one and learn something of electronics.
4) (I think the most important) I tried to increase the number of those who want to develop Axon community for the benefit of the original Admin project.
Thank you for understanding, and I will try to post today the .doc promised.
To answer some of your questions before I will make some clearer pictures:
1) Yes, it uses a TQFP100 brakeout (Linkhttp://cgi.ebay.com/TQFP-100-TQFP100-TQFP-100-Adapter-SMD-PCB-Double-Side_W0QQitemZ350272904203QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518de45c0b)
2) Axon clone uses two ways to feed the 28 + servo power line (for a power supply between 8V and 22V can pass through 6V reg or if you do not use many servo's can feed directly from a source of 4.8V-6V .
Eagle files : http://ifile.it/udvmnh7 (http://ifile.it/udvmnh7)
Pin List: http://ifile.it/dgferqm (http://ifile.it/dgferqm)
Part List and Price: http://ifile.it/epgaodu (http://ifile.it/epgaodu)
Pics: http://ifile.it/b7wg1kf (http://ifile.it/b7wg1kf)
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will it work as well as an axon
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Theoretically yes, but nothing is perfect in this world.
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I hope you will not be selling these?
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I hope you will not be selling these?
Nothing is for sale. This is a project for people who do not have >100$ and want to make their own axon.
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Ah, is it something you have drawn up by looking at the axon?
When will it be posted?
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IM CURRENTLY TORN BEETWEEN the RoMeo Arduino and making my own axon
but im not a master solderer so i might try but i will buy the RoMeo
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Well look at it this way, the romeo will work straight out of the box, no soldering or anything like that.
As for the axon, you have to buy all of the components, etch the PCB, and solder all the part and if you dont have alot of soldering experience you might have trouble soldering the surface mount devices as they are small and hardish to solder without experience.
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One day I think I'll design a through-hole version of the axon for people without any money like me.
(Some parts will have to be approximated of course)
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One day I think I'll design a through-hole version of the axon for people without any money like me.
(Some parts will have to be approximated of course)
Good idea, SMD's can be tricky for beginners.
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Hi,
One day I think I'll design a through-hole version of the axon for people without any money like me.
(Some parts will have to be approximated of course)
Yeah, like the number of I/O-ports, which will be drastically reduced. ;)
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the only other mcu with a larger pin count that i know of and is through hole is the mega32 40 pin
Joker94
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One day I think I'll design a through-hole version of the axon for people without any money like me.
Maybe a board with the 640 pre-soldered and the rest of the parts through hole?
Through hole mcu's are kinda sucky once you want to start getting into more advanced stuff with more I/O needed etc...
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Today I will post both Eagle's files and electronic parts list you need to create your own homemade axon clone.
total cost is estimated ~ 30euro for EU or $ 40 for U.S.
estimated time working for the finished product is ~ 4 hours of work.
hi Catalinene33,
so the ATmega640 costs around 9euro.
the USB to UART chip, regulator and crystal are easily another 20-30euro.
PCB header pins are more expensive than one would expect...
on a 30euro budget you must be thinking about a home made PCB but as the ATmega640 is either TQFP or CBGA package type it's certainly not a beginners project.
i remember adding the numbers up on the back of a cigarette packet when Admin first released the Axon and thinking i'd be hard pushed to order the components and a professionally made PCB for under his price.
so, interested in seeing your promised parts list.
dunk.
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the USB to UART chip, regulator and crystal are easily another 20-30euro.
CP2102 is around $5, 16mhz xtal is ~$3 and the regulator is a few bucks!
Although, i too am interested in seeing a parts list, i might even make one up myself!
EDIT:
Mega640 $11.8 from digikey and basic axon parts list from futurlec below. Few things like a resistor array or two are missing but nothing more than $5-$10 at most.
Sure, not a fancy pcb but who cares? This is for thru-hole components.
So, like ~$25 for a board! If i have left anything out, please tell me.
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I will look at this when i get a chance.
I somewhat ok with the Axon, even though it has a high price.
It just bugs me to death that I can't directly access Uart 1 outside of USB.
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Not really sure what the fuss is about, it is very easy to make one of these...
IMO best way would be use Futurlec part # 100PINTQFP, solder on a 640/2650 and you have all header pins broken out, crystal, voltage regulator, etc and you are done.
Also the mega32 is not the "biggest", it is outdated, the mega644 is currently the biggest (more features than mega32)
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IMO best way would be use Futurlec part # 100PINTQFP, solder on a 640/2650 and you have all header pins broken out, crystal, voltage regulator, etc and you are done.
Didn't sonictj do exactly this sort of thing?
Also the mega32 is not the "biggest", it is outdated, the mega644 is currently the biggest (more features than mega32)
One of admins first axon prototypes right?
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EDIT:
Mega640 $11.8 from digikey and basic axon parts list from futurlec below. Few things like a resistor array or two are missing but nothing more than $5-$10 at most.
Sure, not a fancy pcb but who cares? This is for thru-hole components.
So, like ~$25 for a board! If i have left anything out, please tell me.
hey Smash,
that's exactly my point,
the Mega640 is not available in a through hole package so you are stuck using a PCB of some description.
don't get me wrong, i don't use a board like the Axon because i find it more convenient to build from scratch using only the components required for a fraction of the price,
but the Axon is aimed at people who want the power of a large AVR, want access to all the IO and can't/don't want to produce their own board.
if you add up the price of *all* the components on the Axon it's not bad value for money, providing you want an all singing, all dancing board that you only have to buy once.
if on the other hand you are able to produce your own board then there is little point bothering with the Axon or building an Axon "clone". you will already know how to make your own.
hmm. am i ranting again?
must have been away from the forum too long...
i'll be back home in a month so will be back here more from then...
dunk.
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Also the mega32 is not the "biggest", it is outdated, the mega644 is currently the biggest (more features than mega32)
Thanks for pointing that out Razor, the mega32 was the only larger mcu that used through hole pins.
Joker94
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Good luck with the soldering! I mean, how many of you can even see the 28 pins on the CP2102? :P
Plus, don't forget that rapid personalized tech support and a pre-loaded bootloader comes with the Axon price. ;D
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Good luck with the soldering! I mean, how many of you can even see the 28 pins on the CP2102? :P
How many of us have a hot air rework station? I think if i made this board i would go with the ft232rl chip or use a hardware programmer...
Plus, don't forget that rapid personalized tech support and a pre-loaded bootloader comes with the Axon price. ;D
I love you admin, you know that right? Right?
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Look at the 1st post ::)
It is ON ::)
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So, i take it you used a qfp100 breakout board and soldered all the headers on then just had female sockets on the axon?
I've looked over the eagle layout, its quite confusing... The board layout is much more different than the axon...
May i ask, what is the purpose of the 6v regulator?
Also, what program opens the 640.pro file, sorry for the idiotness...
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Are you going to have more PCB fab'd?
( I want one. )
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Another hidden expense is the programmer. The axon is shipped with a USB bootloader. Obviously a homemade board wont have this so you would also have to buy a hardware programmer in order to use it.
Im not against this project, but im not for it either. People who are likely to buy a pre - made board are those with limited experience, making this quite a difficult project for them. Thos with experience are likely to want to include other functionalities and would therefore design their own boards to fit in with this.
Also part of the price of the Axon must be attributed towards the time it has taken admin to develop software routines and functions for it, leaving those with limited programming knowledge an easier job to use it. Its not necessarily fair to decline him any contributions for the time he has put into this. Not to mention other people like Webbot who are developing software through their own generosity - the original Axon (and success of it) was no doubt a small inspiration to develope software further.
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All true points.
However i did learn that an FDTI USB to UART chip, (found on all arduino boards and programmers) can be used as a hardware programmer. SO i already have a dozen potential hardware programmers lying around.
And you can still use Webbot lib on any atmega 640. Admin and Webbot write code for the better of the community as by the spirit of open source.
Don't get me wrong I appreciate Admin for hosting a site like this, and once i pay off my my debt from school, i would like to start giving yearly contributions.
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I don't think they can be used as hardware programmer, since the microcontroller has to have a bootloader to take the incoming data.
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H/W programming is only possible through ISP.
The Arduino relies on the bootloader loaded in Flash during programming.
If ever this bootloader gets trashed one can not use the Arduino. It would need an ISP (for example Atmel's AVR ISP) to re-write the bootloader or any program.
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Nope, you can burn the bootloader, through the FDTI chip (yeah for bit banging!!)
http://www.geocities.jp/arduino_diecimila/bootloader/index_en.html (http://www.geocities.jp/arduino_diecimila/bootloader/index_en.html)
I know, i know, i was shocked too.
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Yes, the very first principle of a JDM programmer... :-P
I'm totally for the project and totally against it in the same time...
If it's a clone you limit it so it is one... that's bad... it's a costume PCB including all that fun etc etc etc you get from such a project...
And developing such PCB isn't easy at all... so it's good for you to do this... It's very good in fact :-)
And admit, I really really love you but wouldn't a clone just have the same support as the original... I mean it's the Atmega1280...
The same micro... I don't really think he would be asking for reseting problems..... :P ::) ::) ::)
Generally, I'm for people building their own stuff and don't depending on ready solutions... It's boost creativity, well when time isn't a factor... :-P
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Hi,
First, I want to thank those who support this topic and I understand that this idea is not to depose any of the admin's projects or original Axon (not the other but I am very grateful to Admin in terms of work and time spent in creating this community and to open the minds of many people). ;)
To be concise and simple in expression I will list some of the reasons I made this clone (which is a clone of the combined Axon I and Axon II):
1) my salary/month is somewhere in ~ 200EU - axon is somewhere in ~ 100EU with all the transportation.
2) I made several projects with ATMEGA 8, 168, 32, and wanted to jump to another level.
3) I wanted to offer students and people who can not afford an Axon, the opportunity to create one and learn something of electronics.
4) (I think the most important) I tried to increase the number of those who want to develop Axon community for the benefit of the original Admin project.
Thank you for understanding, and I will try to post today the .doc promised.
To answer some of your questions before I will make some clearer pictures:
1) Yes, it uses a TQFP100 brakeout (Linkhttp://cgi.ebay.com/TQFP-100-TQFP100-TQFP-100-Adapter-SMD-PCB-Double-Side_W0QQitemZ350272904203QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518de45c0b (http://cgi.ebay.com/TQFP-100-TQFP100-TQFP-100-Adapter-SMD-PCB-Double-Side_W0QQitemZ350272904203QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518de45c0b))
2) Axon clone uses two ways to feed the 28 + servo power line (for a power supply between 8V and 22V can pass through 6V reg or if you do not use many servo's can feed directly from a source of 4.8V-6V .
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hi Catalinene33,
as cost is your primary concern it would be nice to do away with the TQFP100 brakeout board and associated connectors.
i presume you are using the toner transfer method of creating your PCB?
just to let you know it is perfectly possible to do a toner transfer board for TQFP100. (i regularly use TQFP64 which has the same pin spacing.)
you end up having to re-do the "iron on" part a little more often as the finer traces fail to stick when you peel more often
but as long as you use nice warm etchant the etching process is just as reliable.
it does take longer and is a little frustrating but no additional wasted copper boards.
i'm still sceptical about you can achieve your estimated price but would be happy to be proved wrong.
we all like to build things for ourselves. that's why we read SOR.
so good luck with your endeavour.
dunk.
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Part List and Price: http://ifile.it/epgaodu (http://ifile.it/epgaodu)
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Wow, Under $30, thats pretty cheap! Are you going to get professional pcb's made?
Also, you left out the pcb ~$1-2 and the breakout board $1.50. Would it be ok if i had a go at making a fully smd version, excluding the pin headers of coarse?
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hi Catalinene,
good effort.
still no USB chip, USB connector or (as Smash pointed out) PCB on there yet.
the FT232 is a good USB to UART chip that's not too difficult to solder.
as for a USB connector, probably the cheapest option would be to hack one end off a USB cable and solder it permanently in place.
i think you could miss the price of a hacked cable off the parts list as everyone has *something* lying around broken with a USB plug on the end.
the PCB cost is a tough one to estimate...
it all depends what equipment you have access to. a laser printer is a must for toner transfer
method.
etching solution will be needed too.
off topic but,
Part List and Price: http://ifile.it/epgaodu (http://ifile.it/epgaodu)
wow. what a horrible file sharing system.
you ever used http://docs.google.com (http://docs.google.com)?
if you already have a gmail account then you already have an account for it too. just click the "Documents" link at the top of the page.
you can either work on the document online or upload existing docs.
then people can view the doc without needing to download it.
dunk.
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Hi! The files expired, can you please re-upload them? Thanks in advance! ;)