Society of Robots - Robot Forum
General Misc => Misc => Topic started by: kl22 on April 02, 2010, 12:43:48 AM
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Hi all!
I'm just starting up into the world of Robotics, so I decided to document my adventure.
http://robotics.pixiq.ca (http://robotics.pixiq.ca)
The site is going to be used to document everything I'm doing and have learned. So for those that like to read and those that are also new and would like to get step-by-step tutorials and explanation on what I'm doing can read all about it at my blog.
To start off I'm exploring the Axon II which I purchased about 2 days ago.
Hope you all enjoy. Let me know if you would like me to do add/do something!
(Admin: could you possibly add this to your resources list or something along those lines?)
(Update: site renamed)
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Hmmm I'll link to your site in the exampless, but it seems painfully slow . . . bandwidth issues?
I did a trace route, not sure whats going on here . . .
7 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms 61-91-210-50.static.asianet.co.th [61.91.210.50]
8 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms 203-144-144-28.static.asianet.co.th [203.144.144.28]
9 30 ms 28 ms 28 ms 61-91-210-5.static.asianet.co.th [61.91.210.5]
10 286 ms 431 ms * 61.19.10.29
11 615 ms 360 ms * 61.19.9.69
12 442 ms * 240 ms 61.19.9.30
13 293 ms 292 ms 396 ms 61.19.9.50
14 379 ms 522 ms 382 ms 121.189.2.57
15 508 ms 388 ms 429 ms 112.174.88.50
16 468 ms 382 ms 537 ms 112.174.88.45
17 482 ms 302 ms 304 ms 112.174.88.25
18 457 ms 363 ms 557 ms 112.174.88.42
19 306 ms 407 ms 497 ms 121.189.3.6
20 416 ms 309 ms 509 ms 69.63.248.253
21 382 ms 380 ms 380 ms 69.63.250.17
22 412 ms 411 ms 411 ms 69.63.251.213
23 597 ms 613 ms 614 ms pos-0-0.gw01.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.81.130]
24 524 ms * 610 ms gi-4-1.gw03.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.83.250]
25 454 ms 454 ms 457 ms gi-1-0-0.cmts03.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.91.13]
26 463 ms 463 ms 464 ms CPE002369563281-CM001a66708206.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.247.124.218]
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Hmmm I'll link to your site in the exampless, but it seems painfully slow . . . bandwidth issues?
the problem looks to be a network issue between line 9 and 10 on that traceroute.
i speculate it is a peering issue between AsiaNet and whoever they use for long-haul connectivity to rogers.com.
i don't really know much about the peering market outside Europe but i believe most capacity from your part of the world Admin is routed through Japan and across the Pacific.
a quick image search brings some clarity: http://kelsocartography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/seacablehi.jpg (http://kelsocartography.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/seacablehi.jpg)
bandwidth between Asia and the rest of the world is often scarce at the moment.
thankfully relief is on the way:
http://www.examiner.com/x-16352-Japan-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m11d1-Googles-Pacific-fiber-optic-cable-departs-from-Japan (http://www.examiner.com/x-16352-Japan-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m11d1-Googles-Pacific-fiber-optic-cable-departs-from-Japan)
so yea,
in short,
nothing wrong with http://robotics.pixiq.ca/ (http://robotics.pixiq.ca/) bandwidth.
it's your sucky internet connection again Admin....
dunk.
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Well, my bandwidth here is sub-par, but not painfully bad. Usually acceptable for most things I do.
But his blog literally would take minutes, then just fail half-way. Hows your trace route look?
Most sites load pretty much instantly for me, like SoR. This is a trace route to SoR . . . its fairly typical, and isn't too bad:
8 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms 203-144-144-28.static.asianet.co.th [203.144.144.28]
9 65 ms 41 ms 34 ms 61-91-210-5.static.asianet.co.th [61.91.210.5]
10 285 ms 285 ms 286 ms 61.19.10.29
11 514 ms 282 ms * 61.19.9.65
12 283 ms 282 ms 282 ms 61.19.9.46
13 271 ms 442 ms * 202.47.253.226
14 270 ms 270 ms 271 ms eq-sanjose-10G.theplanet.com [206.223.116.148]
15 272 ms 473 ms 278 ms c2.fd.5746.static.theplanet.com [70.87.253.194]
16 270 ms 270 ms 269 ms 26.ff.5746.static.theplanet.com [70.87.255.38]
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 272 ms 272 ms 272 ms te5-1.car12.dllstx6.theplanet.com [70.87.254.226]
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * 271 ms 420 ms 33.af.78ae.static.theplanet.com [174.120.175.51]
edit: fixed small typo
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Must be the asia to canada route (rogers is canada isn't it?) The Asia to USA pipes must be bigger.
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so Traceroutes are a useful tool but they don't tell the whole story.
sounds like i'm wrong in this case.
i thought the delay you are seeing between line 9 and 10 looked suspicious but although a long or erratic delay suggests problems it does not confirm it.
a long-ish delay does not matter as long as all the data gets through eventually...
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Hey admin,
I think there are two problems, one the server is hosted from my house... so I only get 1mb/s upload speeds. I'm currently working on some sponsorships for hosting, hopefully by next week the University close to my house sponsors me and I can get proper upload/bandwidth. And the next has to do with routing, as metioned by Asellith and dunk.
Hey Asellith,
Yea rogers is in Canada.
The delay is too long for me to be happy with :D i'll get that fixed asap!
Thanks all for the info! As noted above I'm looking into some hosting options. Right now I'm looking into co-location hosting as I need server space for other projects/businesses I am working on. Any suggestions?
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if your needs are simple, http://sites.google.com (http://sites.google.com) is free, no ads, etc.
you can park your own domain name there as well if you want.
i use it for documenting a few projects: http://sites.google.com/site/mrdunk/Home (http://sites.google.com/site/mrdunk/Home)
dunk.
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thanks dunk,
I'll look into that but I'm looking for something along the lines of actual hosting.
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I got some other people to do some trace routes for me outside of Canada (mainly in Europe and US), and they don't seem to be having such a big timing issue that you are getting? I'm trying to find a quick fix, but I think my only option may be to wait until the dedicated hosting starts up.
If there is anyone else reading this in some part of asia can you do a trace route to robotics.pixiq.ca and let me know what you get.
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Hi,
Looks OK from Denmark
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn
2 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms lo1.bynxx19.ip.tele.dk [80.166.139.157]
3 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms ge-3-1-0-40.bynxu5.dk.ip.tdc.net [83.88.8.135]
4 97 ms 96 ms 97 ms pos7-0-0.nyk2nxg1.us.ip.tdc.net [83.88.26.94]
5 106 ms 105 ms 116 ms ix-equinix-ny3.rogers.com [206.223.131.105]
6 122 ms 122 ms 123 ms 69.63.248.193
7 116 ms 117 ms 116 ms pos-0-0.gw01.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.81.130]
8 124 ms 116 ms 117 ms gi-3-1.gw03.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.83.246]
9 116 ms 116 ms 115 ms gi-1-0-0.cmts03.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.91.13]
10 123 ms 137 ms 129 ms CPE002369563281-CM001a66708206.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.247.124.218]
Here is a trace to this site (with timeout increased to 10 seconds to no avail) to compare with:
C:\>tracert -w 10000 www.societyofrobots.com (http://www.societyofrobots.com)
Sporer rute til societyofrobots.com [174.120.175.51]
over et maksimum af 30 hop:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn
2 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms lo1.bynxx19.ip.tele.dk [80.166.139.157]
3 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms ge-3-1-0-40.bynxu5.dk.ip.tdc.net [83.88.8.135]
4 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms pos6-0-0.ldn2nxg1.uk.ip.tdc.net [83.88.12.114]
5 23 ms 23 ms 56 ms ge-2-1-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net [195.66.224.76]
6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms ge-2-1-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net [64.125.28.141]
7 99 ms 105 ms 96 ms so-1-1-0.mpr1.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.31.186]
8 124 ms 123 ms 123 ms ge-2-0-0.mpr3.iah1.us.above.net [64.125.25.114]
9 123 ms 136 ms 123 ms xe-0-3-0.cr1.iah1.us.above.net [64.125.30.101]
10 122 ms 122 ms 122 ms xe-1-1-0.er1.iah1.above.net [64.125.26.222]
11 128 ms 128 ms 128 ms 209.66.99.94.available.above.net [209.66.99.94]
12 133 ms 133 ms 133 ms et5-4.ibr04.dllstx3.theplanet.com [70.87.253.53]
13 141 ms 141 ms 142 ms te7-2.dsr01.dllstx3.theplanet.com [70.87.253.10]
14 * * * Anmodning fik timeout.
15 160 ms 146 ms 144 ms te5-1.car12.dllstx6.theplanet.com [70.87.254.226]
16 * * * Anmodning fik timeout.
17 142 ms 141 ms 141 ms 33.af.78ae.static.theplanet.com [174.120.175.51]
Seems like strange things happen on ThePlanet ;)
(SoR is the slowest of the sites i go to on a regular base, sometimes I have to give up, even when on a near direct feed to a backbone)
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Thanks Soeren,
Seems like the site(http://robotics.pixiq.ca (http://robotics.pixiq.ca)) is okay then? Or did the site take an unreasonable amount of time to load?
The SoR site loads fine for me at all times (I visit this site at least once a day).
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Hi,
This tutorial may seem a little too simple to have its own article
I do agree - now I'm waiting for a tut on boiling water - can be done in so many ways after al l :P
Meant as a tip... Unless you're working with a friend or several (or suffer from schizophrenia), use "I" instead of "we".
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Hi,
Seems like the site(http://robotics.pixiq.ca (http://robotics.pixiq.ca)) is okay then? Or did the site take an unreasonable amount of time to load?
It loads very quickly browsed from DK, it's like the page just appears *bang* ;D
The SoR site loads fine for me at all times (I visit this site at least once a day).
Yes, there's Danish sites that I thought was OK untill I browsed them from abroad as well.
Most of the times SoR works, but sometimes it just times out and maybe half an hour later it loads, but it's allways slow compared to any other sites I visit.
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the server is hosted from my house... so I only get 1mb/s upload speeds
Yea, it definitely felt like slow loading, versus not responding. The images would take forever to download.
As for hosts, SoR is currently using a VPS (with extras) on hostgator.com. I've been using them for a few months now, and haven't had any problems that weren't quickly/painlessly fixed.
But since you're just hosting a simple blog, you'd probably be fine with their $5/month plan. Just don't do any heavy php or run a forum on it!
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weird. most of my 2nd post is missing.
i guess that's what i get for making fun of Admin's internet connection...
so there are a few problems with using Traceroute for this sort of problem diagnosis.
Traceroute by default uses ICMP packets rather than TCP packets on port 80 like your web browser.
ICMP packets are used for passing debug and error messages between connected computers.
TCP is used to pass actual data.
one of the problems is the various routers along the path between your PC and (in this case) http://robotics.pixiq.ca/ (http://robotics.pixiq.ca/) might route ICMP and TCP packets by completely different paths.
it is common practice to drop ICMP packets completely rather than send them on. (this is why a Traceroute to societyofrobots.com never gets to the final server.)
also ICMP packets are much smaller than most TCP packets.
large packets get fragmented and reassembled at the destination. ICMP packets are almost always too small to need fragmented.
this means that for some transmission errors and MTU size configuration issues ICMP packets will traverse a network with no problems but a large TCP packet can still fail.
so what tools to use instead?
looking at the options on http://support.microsoft.com/kb/162326 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/162326) this isn't going to work with the Windows default Traceroute but
on some versions of Traceroute you can force them to use a set protocol and port number.
forcing TCP:80 will make Traceroute more similar to your browser traffic. now at least you can be sure Traceroute's outgoing packets take the same path as those from your web browser. the return packets to Traceroute can still fall prey to the same issues as they are still ICMP.
another thing you can do is see if your version of Traceroute lets you change the packet size.
the default MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) of ethernet is 1500 bytes so if you force traceroute to send a packet larger than this you can guarantee it will be fragmented as it leaves your computer to be reassembled at the destination host.
you can also see a lot using a packet sniffer on your PC when you try to to connect to a problem website.
see what ICMP errors are coming back. see what delay between outgoing packets and their response.
Wireshark is good. for anyone interested in this stuff i recommend playing with a good packet sniffer.
sometimes the problem cannot be diagnosed from just one end station though.
you would need access to logs on the various routers along the path. time to cross your fingers and hope you ISP is working on the problem.
I think there are two problems, one the server is hosted from my house... so I only get 1mb/s upload speeds.
1Mb upload should be more than enough as long as you aren't getting loads of simultaneous hits.
the other thing to think about is maybe you are using your connection for bandwidth intensive tasks when Admin is trying to connect, blocking his incoming TCP request.
probably not though as it sounds like he's tried on more than one occasion.
your site certainly loads ok for me.
today it's ~1 second for everything.
yesterday it was ~1 second for text and formatting with the images taking ~5 seconds.
dunk.
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I tried it again, this time from a different ISP. Took 50 seconds for the page to fully load.
Everything on your front page comes to 1.37mb. So if you have two people accessing your site simultaneously, thats 3 seconds minimum loading time at 1 mb/s.
And actually, you should do a speed test (http://www.speedtest.net/) to see if you are actually getting 1 mb/s upload. What your ISP claims will not be what you actually have, for sure.
And Dunk . . . thanks for the explanation!
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Seems like strange things happen on ThePlanet
(SoR is the slowest of the sites i go to on a regular base, sometimes I have to give up, even when on a near direct feed to a backbone)
by contrast, SOR is very quick when loaded from Ireland.
ThePlanet appears to be doing strange things with ICMP.
my traceroute below shows all the way to the final server using TCP:80.
duncan@lapdancer:~$ sudo traceroute -T -p80 societyofrobots.com
traceroute to societyofrobots.com (174.120.175.51), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2) 4.066 ms 6.239 ms *
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 * * *
5 * * *
6 * d-deg-core1a.magnet.ie (85.91.2.2) 44.263 ms 45.717 ms
7 d-deg-border1.magnet.ie (85.91.2.77) 46.148 ms 46.597 ms 47.001 ms
8 xe-0-1-0-208.dub20.ip4.tinet.net (213.200.67.165) 48.087 ms 48.486 ms 48.899 ms
9 xe-9-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.185.165) 56.227 ms xe-10-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.185.169) 58.539 ms xe-0-3-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.185.226) 61.154 ms
10 ge-2-3-5-mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (213.200.77.78) 63.314 ms ge-2-3-7.mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (64.125.12.105) 65.483 ms ge-2-3-5-mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (213.200.77.78) 68.618 ms
11 ge-5-1-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net (64.125.27.149) 71.219 ms 73.787 ms 36.163 ms
12 so-1-1-0.mpr1.dca2.us.above.net (64.125.31.186) 115.852 ms 115.154 ms 115.917 ms
13 ge-2-0-0.mpr3.iah1.us.above.net (64.125.25.114) 152.043 ms 147.501 ms 149.760 ms
14 xe-0-3-0.cr1.iah1.us.above.net (64.125.30.101) 151.963 ms 147.823 ms 146.581 ms
15 xe-0-1-0.er1.iah1.us.above.net (64.125.28.5) 147.741 ms 149.809 ms 147.168 ms
16 209.66.99.94.available.above.net (209.66.99.94) 146.514 ms 147.461 ms 151.052 ms
17 et5-4.ibr04.dllstx3.theplanet.com (70.87.253.53) 149.337 ms 144.692 ms 148.179 ms
18 te7-2.dsr02.dllstx3.theplanet.com (70.87.253.26) 153.561 ms te7-2.dsr01.dllstx3.theplanet.com (70.87.253.10) 148.404 ms 26.ff.5746.static.theplanet.com (70.87.255.38) 147.526 ms
19 * te1-4.dsr01.dllstx2.theplanet.com (70.87.253.114) 143.983 ms 146.137 ms
20 te6-1.car12.dllstx6.theplanet.com (70.87.254.230) 156.737 ms 150.700 ms 151.161 ms
21 33.af.78ae.static.theplanet.com (174.120.175.51) 154.731 ms 146.901 ms 149.254 ms
it's interesting to compare Soeren's Traceroute to mine.
although we both use different Above.net routers in London (line 11 on my Traceroute, line 6 on Soeren's) before going transatlantic it is safe to assume similar characteristics on all Above.net routers as they will all have the same routing policies.
i would speculate Soeren's latency connecting to SOR is caused before he reached Above.net.
if you are interested in this Soeren, it would be interesting to see if you can find any other sites that you connect to through Above.net and see if you experience the same latency.
also see if your other connection you mention shares the same entry point onto Above.net.
all a bit off topic though...
dunk.
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I would avoid the name PRC since it is associated with the Peoples Republic of China...
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lol good point, i'm going to rename it to just Pixiq Robotics
Thanks!