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Offline FleetTopic starter

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Non-pvc wires
« on: September 13, 2010, 12:58:48 PM »
I am building the 50$-dollar robot and need some non-pvc wires for molex connectors (22/24 awg) and also some for making connections on the back of the controller (can I use the same wires as for molex connectors?). I haven't been able to decipher if there are any at rapidonline.com, active-robots.com or digikey. I would prefer buying the wires at those stores. Do you know any part numbers?

Best regards, Fleet
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 01:03:40 PM by Fleet »

Offline Soeren

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 01:30:50 PM »
Hi,

What's wrong with PVC?

You can search for eg. Kynar wire, but it's expensive.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline FleetTopic starter

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 01:58:58 PM »
#Soeren,
If I should ever short-circuit my battery the pvc will release toxic gasses. Also "soft" pvc is generally unhealthy and therefore I see no reason to buy pvc-coated wires as I will be working with this wire for quite some time. Of course I realise many people might find this silly. Btw: Nice to meet another dane in here.

Best regards, Fleet

Offline Asellith

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 02:24:41 PM »
You using non-lead solder as well? Cause the lead is worse then the PVC any day. Also that's why we have fume extractors. A few projects a week will not hurt you to much. Working with this stuff 8 hours a day for 20 years without proper ventilation then yah you might have some screwed up children and a few bad brain cells

Its good to be concerned about safety but the fumes put off buy melting wires and solder is easy to overcome with good ventalation and a fume extractor. Also WAY cheaper then specialized wires. I'd recommend enamel coating as an alternative but its hard to work with and not sure how big you can get it.
Jonathan Bowen
CorSec Engineering
www.corseceng.com

Offline Soeren

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 02:47:37 PM »
Hi,

Working with this stuff 8 hours a day for 20 years without proper ventilation then yah you might have some screwed up children and a few bad brain cells
After more than 4 decades of holding solder by the teeth and burning PVC wire on a near daily base, I'll take that as an insult and so will both my grandson and his father ;D
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline Soeren

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 02:59:57 PM »
Hi,

#Soeren,
If I should ever short-circuit my battery the pvc will release toxic gasses. Also "soft" pvc is generally unhealthy
Phtalatefobia?
I don't think they use phtalates in wire isolation (I', pretty sure that I would be able to taste it if there was any), but then just by locally - Phtalates are banned in Denmark and then you save on shipping.


Of course I realise many people might find this silly.
Yes, extremely so, but different folks, different strokes  ;D

Where in DK are you from?
There's electronics shop here and there and although some stuff gets quite expensive, you need to factor in shipment (and delivery time), so may even be cheaper all in all.

And how much wire do you need?
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline FleetTopic starter

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 03:58:21 PM »
Soeren,
I'm from Syddjurs Kommune near Århus. I don't need much wire for my current project. I guess one meter of four different colour of wire will be more than sufficient but I would like to buy more as I will need it in the next 4 months where I am going to play around with robotics. If you could suggest one or more good electronics/robotics stores it would be great. Also, may I ask what wire you would buy if you were building the 50$ bot?

Best regards.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 06:00:51 PM by Fleet »

Offline Soeren

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 06:51:40 PM »
Hi,

I'm from Mørke (Syddjurs Kommune), near Århus.
Living in The Dark, you just have to use the internet to bring some light   :P  ;)

The shops nearest you, that I know of:

Elektronik lavpris
Vesterbrogade 21-29
8000 Århus C
http://www.elektronik-lavpris.dk/
Read this page too: http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/priser.php


Elfa
Sintrupvej 26
8220 Brabrand
https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~dk_da/elfa/init.do?init=1&shop=ELFA_DK-DA
(But they want a CVR-number, so if you don't have that, they don't wanna sell you a thing - perhaps it's different if you go to their physical shop).


If you wanna travel a little longer there's:
Hennings elektronik
Julsøvej 28b
8600 Silkeborg
http://www.hennings-electronic.dk/
(They don't have a real web shop, but you can still do mail order with them)


If you want a web shop, there's El-Supply (http://www.el-supply.dk/) in Nexø, Bornholm, which have fairly low prices on quite a few goodies.
http://www.el-supply.dk/?Gid=382&VNr=7408.KIT is 10 wires (0.2 square) of different color, 6m of each color for DKR78,40 (+ VAT)

(I have shopped at El-supply a number of times, but I have no personal experience with the other shops, as I'm from Copenhagen.)


But, for simple wire, you may have a hobby store near you that usually sells wire in something like 5m a pop at around DKR3/m.

It will be hard to find something that's non-PVC though.
The alternatives that springs to mind is Kynar (a.k.a. PVDF, which is probably only found on wire wrap wire), silicone, Teflon (PTFE) and Kapton, all somewhere between expensive and extremely expensive.

And, trust me or not, nobody has ever tried to claim work related damages due to PVC clad wires, so I think you should take a walk on the wild side and go with the PolyVinyl Chloride, like the rest of the world  ;D


I don't need much wire for my current project. I guess one meter of four different colour of wire will be more than sufficient but I would like to buy more as I will need it in the next 4 months where I am going to play with robotics before I begin studying at Uni.
If you strip an old VHS recorder or a similar piece of consumer electronics, you'll get plenty of wire (plus a few motors and other parts.
You'll need heavier wire for the power lines, but a bit of mains cable (eg. an old PC mains cable) can be stripped for that.


If you could suggest one or more good electronics/robotics stores it would be great.
Some are shown above.

We don't have any dedicated robotics shops in DK, but what you can't get locally, you can always order in from somewhere else (Conrad and Roitner LASER, both in Germany, have lots of fancy stuff).


Also, may I ask what wire you would buy if you were building the 50$ bot?
PVC.

I use multicore silicone cable for power to moveable parts, because they bend easy and do so repeatedly without breaking. Apart from that, I only use non-PVC when electrical or physical properties call for it.

It's not a very good idea to used CuL (Copper with Lacquer) magnet wire, as it is single core rigid wire, so breaks all to easy when things start to vibrate.

Come to think of it... The isolation on the wires found in some appliances is very stiff and either it's not PVC or it's PVC with less softener than usual (it's the softeners that are problematic).
I recently took apart a Sony U-matic (since I had no use for it and it was stuffed with goodies) and all the wires were of this type with quite rigid isolation, except for the screened wire.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline FleetTopic starter

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2010, 04:41:14 PM »
#Soeren,
Thanks for your mentioning of the electronics shops and your helpful suggestions. I will follow your suggestion and strip some old consumer electronics for wires and perhaps take a walk on the "wild side"  :D

Best regards.

Offline vinito

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2010, 08:52:43 PM »
You could pull the wire harness out of an old electro-mechanical pinball machine and get about a mile of color-coded cloth-insulated wire. Be kind of a shame though - pinball machines are fun.

Offline FleetTopic starter

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 02:41:36 PM »
Can anyone please suggest some non-pvc wire (a link/part number) suitable for the 50$ robot? I would be very grateful. 22-24 AWG.

/Fleet

Offline Soeren

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Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline codiak

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 04:40:54 PM »
Can anyone please suggest some non-pvc wire (a link/part number) suitable for the 50$ robot? I would be very grateful. 22-24 AWG.

/Fleet

I use Teflon wire for various projects

http://www.surplussales.com/wire-cable/Wire4.html

Offline Soeren

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 07:31:01 PM »
Hi,

Just strikes me... Teflon emits seriously poisons when heated above a certain temperature. I don't recall the exact temp., but you shouldn't leave a PTFE coated frying pan on a hot stove without food on it.
Might be worth checking into, if PVC is considered scary.
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

Offline FleetTopic starter

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 06:14:09 AM »
Thanks for your suggestions. You're right, Soeren. Can you suggest wire with jackets of silicone, kynar, PE etc.? It's not that I am lazy, I simply have been unable to find something reasonable.

Regards, Fleet

Offline Soeren

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Re: Non-pvc wires
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2010, 06:30:19 AM »
Hi,

Well, just Google it, that's what I'd do to find it.

Better yet, don't worry so much, I have used PVC wires in abundance (and melted and burned my fair share) during a bit over 40 years with no issues.
I've never before heard anyone being so upset about PVC.

What's your biggest fear using PVC?
Regards,
Søren

A rather fast and fairly heavy robot with quite large wheels needs what? A lot of power?
Please remember...
Engineering is based on numbers - not adjectives

 


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